Tournament hand for discussion

An interesting hand from last night's local tournament that I have been thinking about. I post it here for discussion.

There are 16 players left. Ten places are paid. Heavily waited to the top three spots. The average stack is about $4500. I have $5600. The blinds are $400-$800.

Under the gun player (UTG) limps in. He has more chips than I do be a reasonable amount and might even be the chip leader. I have played only a few hands with UTG at another table. I have him down as an "ABC" player, by which I mean someone who will tend to bet the value of his hand. But, I am aware of that fact that I don't really have enough evidence to write the book on UTG.

I am middle position and find Ah-Th.

Question #1: What should I do? (answer the question before looking ahead).

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I decide that I could win this hand with a raise. I make it $3000 to go. The button calls all-in (about $1200). Then, UTG moves in. Ugh...

I am facing a call of $2600 (putting me all-in) into a pot of $11,000. I am getting the odds to call against anything other then A-A. But, there is an all-in player who is a skilled cardsharp himself so I have to give the all-in player for something. I will give him credit for a big ace or any pair.

Pros -- a stack of $13,600 will be dominant at this point and give me a good chance at the top three pay spots.

Cons -- I am out of the tournament.

I spent a long time over this and even opened conversation with UTG to try and sniff out a tell. I thought that he had a strong hand, but not aces. But, I was far from certain.

Question #2 -- Do you call? (answer before looking ahead)
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I called. UTG had J-J. I can't remember what button had. I spiked an ace and won the hand.

Sadly for UTG I busted him a few hands later when I ran my A-9o through his K-K. Not one, but two bad beats.

Comments

  • I am always wary of a limper UTG. I don't think limping would be a real good option. I would have raised to $2400 total but that's a small difference from what you decided.

    If he only calls, this gives me the ability to push a still sizable bet in on the turn, if i think i can get him to drop the hand. (ie. the texas holdem two step)

    UTG goes all-in: i swallow hard and push all-in also because the at this point the pot is laying great odds against everything except for aces.

    For the record my guess on the way he played it had me thinking he had either TT, JJ or QQ. Ie. good enough to limp, big enough to still push all-in and needing the protection of pushing all-in to get you off of various possible hands, if he sensed you feared getting all-in.
  • 1. I would have just called. Lately, I've been favouring more passive pre-flop play in NL with strong (but not monster) hands when not in a good stealing position.

    You've got a good limping hand, but middle position is a little far from stealing territory, particularly with an UTG limper who could have almost anything. Limp re-raising UTG with AA is not quite ABC, but it's far from exotic.

    2. Call. This is a pretty easy call just based on the stack & pot sizes I think. Sometimes you'll run into a dominating hand, but you might be giving the UTG player too much credit here if you're putting him on TT or better or AJ or better. Your UTG opponent may simply have heard of the notion of isolating, or geting it heads-up with, an all-in player. He may choose to do this with a mediocre hand.

    ScottyZ
  • With a raise to 3K, are you not pot commited at that point. The all in is not a problem. You have him covered with your raise. The all in re-raise is a problem. At that point he is pushing a big pair or hoping you have AK and can steal your excess chips.

    But with 11K to win with a call of 2400, you must certainly call.
  • The correct move would be to raise to 1/3 stack to see if he stays with you.
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    With the limper moving all in A 10 suited is not a strong enough hand. I would fold.

    One of my rules is never raise with 2 or more limpers in ahead of you, unless you have a monster.

    I have in the past exited two very good tournaments on A J suited with a limper UTG or in first position. The way this happened to me lately, I would have called and seen the flop. Call me gun shy at the moment.
  • i agree, you have to call, even though you probably don't like it...

    i think it would probably be better to limp as well....a stack of 5600 with 400-800 blinds seems pretty small to be making pot-committing raises like you did with ATs....with the average stack at 4500, there is probably going to be a lot of preflop all-in bingo, and i'm not super enthusiastic about being all-in with AT....so if you're going to make a raise, maybe going all-in first is better, to try and take the pot down preflop. but i think i prefer just calling to see what the rest of the table does
  • This is what I wrote to myself before scrolling down on your original post and seeing what actually transpired...

    raise to 2000 total

    and call because you are pot committed.

    I like the raise in MP with an Ace and solid suited kicker, to often I get outdrawn by worse hands (ace/rag) and kick myself for not raising preflop. I don't agree with the passive play of just calling and giving your opponent a free ride to the flop, make em pay for it.

    Did you end up in the top 3?

    stp
  • I fold after UTG moves in. I hate when UTG limps....to me it always smells fishy, then when he pushed I'm pretty certain that I'm beat. My only pro to this is that he has a small pair that he wants to go heads up against button. I know that you need to have a decent size stack for the final table to make the top 3, but in my opinion you got lucky and spiked your ace which I would have thought was no good anyways.
    Just wondering if anyone would have called this if the same senario came up in the WSOP or any other major tourney :)
  • I thought this hand was interesting mostly because I do not think the course is clear.

    A-Ts was, I think, too good to lay down pre-flop. So, call or raise. And, how much? Raising definately pot committed me unless I had an uncanny read on the limper.

    Then... am I REALLY pot committed? Looks like aces, smells like aces, tastes like aces... must be aces! Course... it wasn't so I guess I guessed right. That and with 2600 left I was not out. I really wanted the big stack since even with "insane blinds" a big stack can be a BIG advantage.
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