My 460 NAPC Satellite report :)
(Cliff notes at bottom if you don't like my stories)
So I decided to make a trip over to Fallsview on Friday night to get into their 460.00 qualifiers. I figured it has the best bang for the buck in my thinking (1 in 3 basically get a seat), which I think is sufficient odds for me to get through (not calculating rake, variance, etc…but just plain poker). The format I found playing it was similar to a Pokerstars turbo SNG which I usually 12 tables at a time so I figured I should be ok with the format playing 1 table.
On with my trip report. First off the game didn’t get started till about 11:30pm after they had ran through all the names at 10:00pm….which was ridiculous, if people call and draw a seat they should take the money right away. As soon as they have 10 buy ins the game should start. This format lent itself to people wandering off, coming back, leaving again…but finally we got 10 and we were ready to go.
Here is the breakdown of my table. I was seat 8 after seat 9 bought my seat at the seat draw for 25.00. I have no clue why he offered me 25.00 before the game even started but I figured I should take it. He is an accountant by trade and knows the #1 ranked CDN on pocket 5s..I didn’t know who this guy was so I tried to act interested in his conversation (keenly picking up on him trying to gather information on me and who I was…surprise I am no one important so the joke was on him)
Seats 1,2,4,5,7,9 were all Fallsview regulars, they all knew each other and it was quite hilarious to hear their battle stories on how a few had won the 460’s already and some had played them 3-5 times and still not cashed…I couldn’t help but laugh because hearing stories of “I was pot committed” or “I can’t believe he called my re-raise with A8” just proves to me once again that a lot of people who think they know poker do not really know something called “variance”
Seats 3,6 were friends (actually the last 2 to come aboard as the pit bosses roped them in from playing 5/10 LIMIT to a 460 satellite) so I was not too worried about them.
Ok…and we are off. Blinds are 25/50. I got the button so I am safe for an orbit. Let me start off by saying at this level I did not see one re-raise or bet larger than 250.…after watching 7 hands go by I decided to shake things up. I raise to 175 with 10c2c. BB completes. Flop Qh9h2d. He checks I check. Turn is a 2s. He checks again, I bet out 300 and he folds. I show and that proceeds to get heckled by the Fallsview regulars “boy you are going to be out 1st”, “you must be an internet player”, etc etc.
That showing turns out to be the worst thing I could have done. A few hands later with the blinds at 50/100 I pick up KcKh utg. I raise it up to 475 and get called by the button and BB. So my spidey senses start to tingle and figure I may be in deep trouble this hand. Flop comes 234 rainbow. Safe flop, right….and the BB (a female player) proceeds to bet out 550 into the pot (she only has about 525 left)…So I look at her and say “wow you really flopped a set eh?” she just looks at me and doesn’t say a word. I call the 550 (hoping at this point to spike my K because I know I am way behind). As I call the button looks at me and asks “how much do you have left” I look at him and gladly count out my chips and let him know I have about 1100 left. He starts to muddle and says he is laying down the best hand…before he mucks I tell him to put me all in so he can prove to me that he has the best hand…but he just mucks his hand. Before the dealer flips the turn card, I ask the female player to put her remaining chips in the middle because I was calling her bet…she gladly obliges. I also then ask if I guess which set she has if I could get back 100 chips…she gives me the look of death and I proceed to flip up my KK and tell her she has a set of deuces (I took a guess) and surprise surprise…22 it is…the whole table is stunned (I was not stunned at her hand, I was stunned that I guessed right)
So now I am down to about 600 chips and there are still 10 players left…so now I am in steal mode. The female player proceeds to tell me she got lucky and blah blah blah. At this point it doesn’t matter, she set mined and hit. She also did tell me her call was easy preflop because of my 10c2c shenanigans. (GEEZ I play one bad hand and get labelled as the maniac)
So for the next two rounds I proceed to steal and eventually build my stack up to 1200.…yeah that’s correct straight stealing and shoving with any Ace….hehehe.
So with my stack at about 1200 I proceed to sit and watch the action. First elimination comes after a guy pots commits himself (I love that phrase) on a A94h board seat 1 flips up K9 and seat 3 flips up AK….both with no hearts. Once he gets eliminated there are 2 more eliminations back to back. AK vs. QJ and 66 vs. AK….I love tourney poker.
I am still on the short stack and I get widdled down to about 800. I pick up AQ on the BB and the button who is in 2nd or 3rd in chips proceeds to shove on me. I snap call and he flips up K2s. Thanks for the double up J
Now I am in cruise control with 8 players left and two big stacks and the rest of us hovering around 1200-2500 chips I have no problems manoeuvring through the players. I proceed to watch a series of events which are very telegraphed:
1.UTG limp = big hand (twice it was KK)
2.People playing with their chips then min raising = big hand
3.Big stacks playing against each other with top 3 getting a seat….really stupid play if you ask me. Shouldn’t you be picking on people who will fold to your raises unless they have a monster??
So next elimination is the lady who I doubled up when she flopped a set. AcKc vs. KK. With that we are down to 6 and the blinds goto 150/300 with antes.
The next elimination comes when 10s hold up against A8 and we are down to 5. (sorry I skipping through most of the standard chip shuffling through the table with raises and walks.
With the blinds at 200/400 I start to pick up hands (woohooo)
9s raise to 1000 no callers
10s raise to 1200 no callers
KK raise to 900 no callers
So I am perfectly happy stealing 600 plus antes each round….and proceed to dump it back when I am a blind.
The last hand of the tourney I pick up JJ on the BB. The button who has everyone covered shoves with the SB short who calls and I call as well figuring I must be ahead of the button and I have the SB covered (a little more on that in a minute)
Button = AhQh
SB = AQ off
BB (me) = JJ
Wooohoo…until all hearts flop and I am drawing slim. So with both the SB and myself eliminated we go to a chip count for 4th. I have 2050 chips left and the SB has 2000.….lol…I score the replay with 50 chips J
GG me. Definitely going back to play again and I will probably play 2 or 3 more 460s the level of play is weak but the only thing is you have to make sure when you put your money in on any race it’s a quality hand. No bluffing early on and one mistake will take you out of the tourney. Sucks but that is the similar format to a pokerstars or full tilt turbo SNG. I play those all the time so I am used to the structures and I feel my SNG game is solid.
Any questions let me know J (oh and feel free to comment on anything…it helps my game as usual)
CLIFF NOTES:
1. SNG structure same as a turbo SNG online. Play a ton of those and this structure will be fine.
2. Players are weak and most can't adjust to the format
3. Most play is transparent and if you pay attention it is easy to navigate through the game.
4. You don't necessarily need to get lucky but it definitely helps
5. I will be playing more of these as they are the easiest way to get to the 1200s other than the rake free games set up here (well also one of the only ways)
So I decided to make a trip over to Fallsview on Friday night to get into their 460.00 qualifiers. I figured it has the best bang for the buck in my thinking (1 in 3 basically get a seat), which I think is sufficient odds for me to get through (not calculating rake, variance, etc…but just plain poker). The format I found playing it was similar to a Pokerstars turbo SNG which I usually 12 tables at a time so I figured I should be ok with the format playing 1 table.
On with my trip report. First off the game didn’t get started till about 11:30pm after they had ran through all the names at 10:00pm….which was ridiculous, if people call and draw a seat they should take the money right away. As soon as they have 10 buy ins the game should start. This format lent itself to people wandering off, coming back, leaving again…but finally we got 10 and we were ready to go.
Here is the breakdown of my table. I was seat 8 after seat 9 bought my seat at the seat draw for 25.00. I have no clue why he offered me 25.00 before the game even started but I figured I should take it. He is an accountant by trade and knows the #1 ranked CDN on pocket 5s..I didn’t know who this guy was so I tried to act interested in his conversation (keenly picking up on him trying to gather information on me and who I was…surprise I am no one important so the joke was on him)
Seats 1,2,4,5,7,9 were all Fallsview regulars, they all knew each other and it was quite hilarious to hear their battle stories on how a few had won the 460’s already and some had played them 3-5 times and still not cashed…I couldn’t help but laugh because hearing stories of “I was pot committed” or “I can’t believe he called my re-raise with A8” just proves to me once again that a lot of people who think they know poker do not really know something called “variance”
Seats 3,6 were friends (actually the last 2 to come aboard as the pit bosses roped them in from playing 5/10 LIMIT to a 460 satellite) so I was not too worried about them.
Ok…and we are off. Blinds are 25/50. I got the button so I am safe for an orbit. Let me start off by saying at this level I did not see one re-raise or bet larger than 250.…after watching 7 hands go by I decided to shake things up. I raise to 175 with 10c2c. BB completes. Flop Qh9h2d. He checks I check. Turn is a 2s. He checks again, I bet out 300 and he folds. I show and that proceeds to get heckled by the Fallsview regulars “boy you are going to be out 1st”, “you must be an internet player”, etc etc.
That showing turns out to be the worst thing I could have done. A few hands later with the blinds at 50/100 I pick up KcKh utg. I raise it up to 475 and get called by the button and BB. So my spidey senses start to tingle and figure I may be in deep trouble this hand. Flop comes 234 rainbow. Safe flop, right….and the BB (a female player) proceeds to bet out 550 into the pot (she only has about 525 left)…So I look at her and say “wow you really flopped a set eh?” she just looks at me and doesn’t say a word. I call the 550 (hoping at this point to spike my K because I know I am way behind). As I call the button looks at me and asks “how much do you have left” I look at him and gladly count out my chips and let him know I have about 1100 left. He starts to muddle and says he is laying down the best hand…before he mucks I tell him to put me all in so he can prove to me that he has the best hand…but he just mucks his hand. Before the dealer flips the turn card, I ask the female player to put her remaining chips in the middle because I was calling her bet…she gladly obliges. I also then ask if I guess which set she has if I could get back 100 chips…she gives me the look of death and I proceed to flip up my KK and tell her she has a set of deuces (I took a guess) and surprise surprise…22 it is…the whole table is stunned (I was not stunned at her hand, I was stunned that I guessed right)
So now I am down to about 600 chips and there are still 10 players left…so now I am in steal mode. The female player proceeds to tell me she got lucky and blah blah blah. At this point it doesn’t matter, she set mined and hit. She also did tell me her call was easy preflop because of my 10c2c shenanigans. (GEEZ I play one bad hand and get labelled as the maniac)
So for the next two rounds I proceed to steal and eventually build my stack up to 1200.…yeah that’s correct straight stealing and shoving with any Ace….hehehe.
So with my stack at about 1200 I proceed to sit and watch the action. First elimination comes after a guy pots commits himself (I love that phrase) on a A94h board seat 1 flips up K9 and seat 3 flips up AK….both with no hearts. Once he gets eliminated there are 2 more eliminations back to back. AK vs. QJ and 66 vs. AK….I love tourney poker.
I am still on the short stack and I get widdled down to about 800. I pick up AQ on the BB and the button who is in 2nd or 3rd in chips proceeds to shove on me. I snap call and he flips up K2s. Thanks for the double up J
Now I am in cruise control with 8 players left and two big stacks and the rest of us hovering around 1200-2500 chips I have no problems manoeuvring through the players. I proceed to watch a series of events which are very telegraphed:
1.UTG limp = big hand (twice it was KK)
2.People playing with their chips then min raising = big hand
3.Big stacks playing against each other with top 3 getting a seat….really stupid play if you ask me. Shouldn’t you be picking on people who will fold to your raises unless they have a monster??
So next elimination is the lady who I doubled up when she flopped a set. AcKc vs. KK. With that we are down to 6 and the blinds goto 150/300 with antes.
The next elimination comes when 10s hold up against A8 and we are down to 5. (sorry I skipping through most of the standard chip shuffling through the table with raises and walks.
With the blinds at 200/400 I start to pick up hands (woohooo)
9s raise to 1000 no callers
10s raise to 1200 no callers
KK raise to 900 no callers
So I am perfectly happy stealing 600 plus antes each round….and proceed to dump it back when I am a blind.
The last hand of the tourney I pick up JJ on the BB. The button who has everyone covered shoves with the SB short who calls and I call as well figuring I must be ahead of the button and I have the SB covered (a little more on that in a minute)
Button = AhQh
SB = AQ off
BB (me) = JJ
Wooohoo…until all hearts flop and I am drawing slim. So with both the SB and myself eliminated we go to a chip count for 4th. I have 2050 chips left and the SB has 2000.….lol…I score the replay with 50 chips J
GG me. Definitely going back to play again and I will probably play 2 or 3 more 460s the level of play is weak but the only thing is you have to make sure when you put your money in on any race it’s a quality hand. No bluffing early on and one mistake will take you out of the tourney. Sucks but that is the similar format to a pokerstars or full tilt turbo SNG. I play those all the time so I am used to the structures and I feel my SNG game is solid.
Any questions let me know J (oh and feel free to comment on anything…it helps my game as usual)
CLIFF NOTES:
1. SNG structure same as a turbo SNG online. Play a ton of those and this structure will be fine.
2. Players are weak and most can't adjust to the format
3. Most play is transparent and if you pay attention it is easy to navigate through the game.
4. You don't necessarily need to get lucky but it definitely helps
5. I will be playing more of these as they are the easiest way to get to the 1200s other than the rake free games set up here
(well also one of the only ways)
Comments
I have found in past experiences with turbo SNGs that people are more likely than not to call down hands than fold. The problem with most live tournies are the structure, like this one so really you can't bluff until you set a table image and you can identify the weaker players which is usually not till level 2 or 3 of this tourney as you are getting in 15 hands a round basically.
I would have liked to bluff a little more (hence my 10/2 hand) but I did improve nicely. It did help my image (KK hand) but then it backfired...lol..
I found raising in position in the later stages of the tourney (button/cut off) steal were suffice.
I think you should fold everything except AA or KK here?
Yeah there is a good argument for that, my problem was I didn't count out the SB chips properly to realize how close we were. I thought I had him covered by a lot so the most that happens in my case is the SB doubles and I even out cause I knew I was ahead of the Button
85% sure I am playing again this weekend so hopefully I have a better showing.
some guy on here was selling his $460 tokens for less than cost.
It would be nice to say I have too many 10K seats and I need to sell those...lol
Yeah I finished top 3...I was technically 3rd overall in chips. So yeah finished 3rd...lol
Here is the trip report
Here is another tourney trip report for the 460 as I played it yesterday. As always cliff notes are at the bottom
So my buddies and I decided to head down on the Saturday to go play some cards and be just general degenerates. Originally the plan was to go Friday but things got messed up so we went down Saturday around 3pm, about a 2 hour drive due to the higher volume of traffic. Other than that we are there at around 5:15 and we are good to go. Calling in did us no good as the list was a mile long. No worries the 460 satellite list was not too bad so I got my name on that list too. Last name called, actually the floor was nice I told them as they were running down the names and had 1 seat to fill that I had my voucher and I wanted to play…(smart thinking for them they just started to rhyme of names until they got to me
Ok I am seat 6...not bad but here is the table line up again. A little different but similar to my last tourney the week before.
Seat 1 - Old Asian guy
Seat 2 - Cute Asian girl who had a voucher (mental note, probably knows how to play)
Seat 3 - Old white guy - bought in with $$$ pegged him as maybe a grinder but probably ABC poker player
Seat 4 - Asian guy who had a redhotpoker tour cap and all poker clothing on and he was also talking about the fact he had won a seat?? (Alarm bells went off in my head…stay away..lol)
Seat 5 - Asian guy with similar clothing on but not as chatty
Seat 6 - me
Seat 7 - another old white guy
Seat 8 - Older Arab looking guy
Seat 9 - Mid 30s Indian guy with a donkey marker
Seat 10 - Old white guy - looked like a regular had just been complaining about how his AA lost to 88 as buddy went perfect perfect to a straight…(oh well…welcome to poker….)
Shuffle up and deal. First hand Seat 1 is all in with A9 vs. AQ of seat 10.….thanks for coming out and we are down to 9...(WTF….are people insane, I guess so)
So with blinds at 25/50 the game play is similar to last weeks game. NO ONE RAISES??? What is wrong with people. I decided this game to keep my image TAG.
First hand I pick up is AJ, I raise to 175 and get seat 5 calling. (He had been limp calling raises all tourney and picking off weakness but I couldn’t tell if he actually flopped anything because of this small ball approach)
Flop comes q 57 rainbow. I bet out 250 and he calls…turn is a 10, I check this time and he bets out 500 and I muck. This early in the tourney I am not going to try to gamble as I know I have an edge on these players and I suspect he may have q-rag or something ridiculous. My suspicions are confirmed as he later flips up k4h on a board of k22 as he limp called a raise and then check called a bet. So he has been pegged as a calling station and lagtard, which in this tourney I don’t see as a correct play because he is getting involved in too many pots with mediocre holdings (it comes back to bite him later on as he starts chip dumping as the blinds go up)
Pick up AQ and miss the flop with the same lagtard and he out flops me again…so at this point I am hovering around 1200 chips (not too good) but everyone else is mixing it up to but I am the only one raising preflop so that is once again pretty scary and looks to be standard issue in the 460 satellite.
We lose a few more players 66 vs. QQ and K4 loses to A8 as seat 4 looked to be playing an internet style game similar to mine of raising and shoving hoping to double up or leave. I thought he started the push fold option a little too early as he still had a similar stack to mine and the blinds were only 50/100.
With that said the blinds are now 100/200 and we have 7 people left. I pick up 800 chips when I raise with AcKc and the board is 678 with two clubs. So now I am back to around even and the both seat 9 and seat 2 have picked off all of seat 10’s original double up. The rest of the table has between 1000-2300 chips so at this point I am hoping that the two large stacks start picking off smaller stacks as I start to realize seat 8 and seat 3 do not know how to play late in tournies with a small stack.
I continue to steal and shove with AK twice and 88 and 99. No callers. Now the two big stacks are starting to get anxious with me stealing a lot and say next time I do that they will call (little do they know that I am only pushing with hands I want to double up with and I am in no way making a move)
We lose seat 10 and seat 8 and now we are down to 4 (sorry for the lack of reporting I was on cruise control for the most part and seat 9 was knocking everyone out)
He knocked out seat 5 when he went runner runner straight against AA
He knocked out seat 4 A8 vs. K4 (previously discussed)
He knocked out seat 10 J4 vs. AK on a board of 334 which was a huge call on the flop
He knocked out seat 8 QQ vs. 66
So it was great to have him doing all our work for us. With the blinds at 150/300 with ante I picked up AsQs and it was folded to me in the SB. I decide to complete hoping that this monster stack will shove and I will double up. Well don’t you know it I flop the nut flush. I check, he checks. Turn is a brick 3H and I bet out 300 and he folds. I show and he laughs saying that he had 85 off and he had no spades. Dammit…why couldn’t he have picked up a hand.
So now I am still hovering around 2500-2600 chips as we are shuffling chips around the table with all ins and folding or the two big stacks raising against the smaller stacks. The old man in seat 3 doubles up when he had 800 chips and now is sitting at 1600.
With that I am not too worried as we are in the money technically (replay and 3 seats are now being decided at this point). I don’t have to worry as I know I will pick up 3rd as long as I don’t get unlucky. And before I can even look at my cards the short stack in seat 3 goes all in. I quickly muck and the big stack in seat 9 instanta calls. A9 vs. K9...board bricks and short stack is out. Woohooo. Now next week I will most likely play the step Q.
Cliff notes:
1. Game was played out in a similar style to last week….too much limp/checking.
2. Seat 9 knocks out 6 players basically which makes life easy for me.
3. Most people can’t play end game or short stacks so it makes it fun for more experienced players to pick up chips when they need them.
4. I am off to step Q on my second attempt at a 460 (first attempt I finished 4th)
5. Feel like just sitting and playing 460s all day there and picking up a seat or a replay as it is so straight forward.
GG ME
Hey, just a heads up I have seen this guy playing the satellites 170/460/1240 every single time I go there, about 3-5 times a week, and seems to be a great player who I have seen end up winning about half the time...
Anyways for me I'm still sticking to the $70 at niagara, I know, I know shove it bingos, but I'm still just learning and I really have either some luck or a way to paly sit and gos and do ok, I have now played 18 of these $70 ones, finished 1st 7 times, and 2nd 3 times. So I have invested 15 X $70= $1050, and have 7 X $460 seats, sold 3 for $400 so far...so overall I am up $150 with still 4 $460 vouchers...not sure if I will play these or sell them and maybe try this level next year once I have more experience....anyway thats my trip report lol....and ya the $70 are really bingos, definetley have to get lucky, but sometimes if you sit back you can get to final 4 w/o playing anything then the big stacks are forced to call a double up, and seems to be working for me, some real poker after that I find because we get down to 4 and blinds are still usually first or second level so in relation to chip stack we have some time to play real poker.....anyway works for me...realize most of you will probably disagree with it lol.....
With satellite tournies in general there are certain ways to play them and I like to relate these structures to a pokerstars or fulltilt SNG turbo (like I have said earlier) and when i play those I usually sit back and wait for hands as I like to double up or leave.
Live SNGs require a little less sitting around as most people are worried about their tourney life and will only call with a better hand (as obvious as it sounds people won't take risks..which is really weird because some stacks that have 5-6X times others won't even risk knocking them out on a 60/40 as they feel they may double them up)
Being able to pick on the tighter players is the key in these tournies. As for all your 460 coupons I suggest using 1 to see if you can get to step Q. I mean you have to finish better than 1 in 3 to move to the next level and with all your experience in the 70s i think you should have a good shot.
Goodluck hope I get to the NAPC main event with some fellow forum members as I would like to have a nice meet up down there and just hang out and talk strategy!!!
Cheers