a few hands - full history included!

adproadpro
in Analyze My Hand
I have three hands I want to ask about.

This first one bothered me, but the table was very loose and I only had flush and straight possibilities.

Either way, I would have ended up with a full house. I almost went on tilt.

Question is, would you guys have called this hand pre-flop UTG since it was suited at a fairly loose table? Please note that the pre-flop was known to be raised quite a bit. This is one of the only times that most people didn't go in pre-flop and raise a decent amount. EDIT! Nevermind, they did raise!!!

Here's the hand. I was so frustrated that I didn't play it!!!!



***** Hand History for Game 7316690744 *****
$5 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, August 21, 20:15:18 ET 2008
Table Table 165068 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 7: FunforCash ( $1.21 USD )
Seat 10: lilmuroo123 ( $0.68 USD )
Seat 1: INDA83 ( $2.96 USD )
Seat 2: adprocas ( $5.39 USD )
Seat 3: psychopatoSN ( $5.04 USD )
Seat 5: Thomas11986 ( $4.01 USD )
Seat 6: bloukk ( $6.03 USD )
FunforCash posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
lilmuroo123 posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to adprocas [ Ts 5s ]
adprocas folds
psychopatoSN folds
Thomas11986 folds
bloukk raises [$0.18 USD]
FunforCash folds
lilmuroo123 calls [$0.14 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, Js, Td ]
lilmuroo123 checks
GutShot4Me has joined the table.
javividrio has joined the table.
bloukk bets [$0.24 USD]
lilmuroo123 calls [$0.24 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5h ]
lilmuroo123 checks
bloukk checks
** Dealing River ** [ 7s ]
lilmuroo123 checks
bloukk checks
lilmuroo123 shows [ 3c, As ]a pair of Fives.
bloukk shows [ Qh, Tc ]two pairs, Tens and Fives.
bloukk wins $0.82 USD from the main pot with two pairs, Tens and Fives.
Game #7316692559 starts.

Comments

  • adproadpro
    I am going to get yelled at for this one I think!!!

    I feel I should have called, but there was an A on the board that I was afraid of.

    The question is, when he raised me on the flop, should I have folded?




    #Game No : 7316720383
    ***** Hand History for Game 7316720383 *****
    $5 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, August 21, 20:34:43 ET 2008
    Table Table 165068 (Real Money)
    Seat 1 is the button
    Total number of players : 10
    Seat 2: adprocas ( $7.11 USD )
    Seat 3: psychopatoSN ( $5.72 USD )
    Seat 4: Minecrawler_ ( $1.96 USD )
    Seat 5: Thomas11986 ( $4.88 USD )
    Seat 6: bloukk ( $6.42 USD )
    Seat 7: brutito3 ( $4.52 USD )
    Seat 8: TaipTaipNe ( $5 USD )
    Seat 9: javividrio ( $4.94 USD )
    Seat 10: GINGO35 ( $3.63 USD )
    Seat 1: Wrongroad ( $1.84 USD )
    adprocas posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
    psychopatoSN posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to adprocas [ Jc Jd ]
    Minecrawler_ raises [$0.16 USD]
    Thomas11986 folds
    bloukk folds
    brutito3 folds
    javividrio folds
    GINGO35 folds
    Wrongroad folds
    adprocas raises [$0.34 USD]
    psychopatoSN folds
    Minecrawler_ calls [$0.20 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ As, 8d, 5c ]
    adprocas bets [$0.52 USD]
    Minecrawler_ raises [$1.04 USD]
    adprocas calls [$0.52 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ Tc ]
    adprocas bets [$0.28 USD]
    Minecrawler_ is all-In [$0.56 USD]
    adprocas folds
    Minecrawler_ does not show cards.
    Minecrawler_ wins $3.51 USD
    Game #7316721514 starts.
  • adproadpro
    This was one of my favourite hands. Not sure if it was for logic and playing or for luck. At the time I felt I played it well, but now looking back, I feel maybe I didn't.

    I was sitting back calculating my outs on this hand, and I felt the other guy had nothing. He was known for taking everything down to the river with nothing.

    Anyway, I pair up right away, 2 outs for trips, and had 4 other outs for a straight draw. So, I had a few outs and I figured I was ahead with a pair anyway. So, I called the flop re-raise. I thought the guy was on a flush draw to be honest.

    I knew he was going to bet on the turn, so I checked to see how much. I figured he was going to go over-top of me a lot if I bet, cause he previously showed that type of play. So, I checked.

    He put in his bet, and I still felt like I had pot odds. So, I called and saw my 9 come up!

    Lucky me though! Cause I for sure wasn't putting this guy on a set. I think he should have bet more to push me off of my draw. Although, when I was calculating my outs, I was including my 2 outs for the trip 7's, which would have killed me!! So, technically if I was able to read a set of 8's, I would have only had 4 outs and I probably wouldn't have called him.

    Do you think my calls were justified, or did I just get lucky?

    I also feel I should have bet more on the river. I honestly thought he had nothing, so I felt like if he did surprise me and have a pair, I would try to get him to call a medium bet. However, I should have bet at least his previous 0.66 raise. I was also thinking that if he did have a decently strong hand, he would re-raise me if I bet under his 0.66 raise. Unfortunately he didn't.

    #Game No : 7316730652
    ***** Hand History for Game 7316730652 *****
    $5 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, August 21, 20:41:42 ET 2008
    Table Table 165068 (Real Money)
    Seat 10 is the button
    Total number of players : 10
    Seat 1: Wrongroad ( $1.80 USD )
    Seat 2: adprocas ( $5.59 USD )
    Seat 3: psychopatoSN ( $5.72 USD )
    Seat 4: Minecrawler_ ( $3.18 USD )

    Seat 5: Thomas11986 ( $4.99 USD )
    Seat 6: bloukk ( $6.17 USD )
    Seat 7: brutito3 ( $0 USD )
    Seat 8: TaipTaipNe ( $5 USD )

    Seat 9: javividrio ( $9.35 USD )
    Seat 10: GINGO35 ( $3.57 USD )
    Wrongroad posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
    adprocas posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to adprocas [ Jd 7h ]
    psychopatoSN folds
    Minecrawler_ folds
    brutito3 has left the table.
    Thomas11986 calls [$0.04 USD]
    bloukk calls [$0.04 USD]
    TaipTaipNe folds
    javividrio folds
    GINGO35 folds
    Wrongroad folds
    adprocas checks
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, 7c, 8d ]
    onechino has joined the table.
    adprocas bets [$0.12 USD]
    Thomas11986 folds
    bloukk raises [$0.33 USD]
    adprocas calls [$0.21 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
    adprocas checks
    bloukk bets [$0.66 USD]
    adprocas calls [$0.66 USD]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 9d ]
    adprocas bets [$0.52 USD]
    bloukk calls [$0.52 USD]
    adprocas shows [ Jd, 7h ]a straight Seven to Jack.
    bloukk doesn't show [ 8h, 8s ]three of a kind, Eights.
    adprocas wins $3.01 USD from the main pot with a straight, Seven to Jack.
    Game #7316732966 starts.
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    1) Fold. No questions.
    2) You have to call his push. You're getting like 12-1 on that call.
    3) Standard if you think your good on the flop. I don't mind check calling. bet your made hands stronger at these limits. You will still get paid.
  • KristyKristy
    I agree with Wetts.

    1) Fold

    2)**raise a little more preflop**
    b) don't bother with the same bet on the turn..
    c) as played I call.

    3) slight error in your wording, you said "I had four outs to the straight" and "I put him on a flush draw and thought my pair was good"

    If you put him on a flush draw one of your 9's (9c) is no longer an out, doesn't matter over much in this example...but it will at some point. Just to make sure you were thinking about it.
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    1/ ya. utg easy fold pretty much every time
    2/ fold flop if he's the type to raise OOP with a crappy ace and won't let go of it if it hits him OR if he'd just call you re-raise here with strong ace. pretty sure you are behind here with JJ almost always. i'd never fold the river getting 12:1. i wanna know what cards he's playing this way and it doesn't cost much
    3/ 4 to a straight on board, he'll pay more if he has the low end. i don't think he'll pay much more with just a set here (and he won't pay anything with a busted draw so don't worry about that possibility). maybe .75.
  • adproadpro
    Kristy_Sea wrote: »
    If you put him on a flush draw one of your 9's (9c) is no longer an out, doesn't matter over much in this example...but it will at some point. Just to make sure you were thinking about it.

    Good catch one that. Thinking about outs that help other people as well is one of the things I am trying to work on. I'm good at thinking about it when I am practicing, but not when I am playing. I have to change my frame of mine when playing.


    For hand 2, on second thought for the pre-flop raise with JJ, you're right. I think I should have raised more pre-flop. Maybe he would have folded and I would have taken the pot pre-flop, or even after the flop if he didn't have an A and I raised a decent amount again. I'm going to test out a higher raise pre-flop.

    Thanks for the advice!!
  • PantsonfirePantsonfire
    1) This hand is simply too poor to play. You'll remember this time it would have made a full house. Well consider this. A lot of hands make it big on the turn and river so you have to ask yourself if you would have paid to get past the flop? Also keep in mind that in this particular hand your nice full house is losing to J7, J5, JJ, TT and 77. And in each of those cases you would lose your stack.

    2) There are two things to consider in this hand. First, the stack size of villain. His raise on the flop commits him to the pot. So you cannot simply call this. You must either fold or go all-in.

    Second, this is WA/WB scenario. You are either way ahead of TT, 99, 77, 66, KQ, K8, K5, KJ, JT, etc., or way behind Ax, 88, 55, KK, QQ. Now you have to decide for which set of hands does his betting pattern make sense. And remember Ax makes up a lot of hands. He has Ax most of the time if not all the time.

    3) Not only do you need to consider outs (BTW you have J outs), you need to consider the value of those outs. This is directly related to implied odds. If you hit a miracle out (like a gutshot), you need to predict how valuable it is. In your case the board is Tc 8d 7c and you need a 9 for the gutshot. If you put yourself in your opponent's shoes a 9 coming up is going to be very scary for him. And if he doesn't have a club, a 9c will probably cause him to shut down (or be very cautious). If he has two clubs, a 9c will screw you. So while you will make youir straight, it is using only one card in your hand and four straight on board. That is not an action board, it's an action killer. You only got money out of him on the end because he had a set and couldn't fold for that small bet. As well, how far would your jaw have dropped if he flipped over QJ?

    Now compare that to a hand where you have 7s5s and villain has QQ and the flop is Qs 8s 4h. If something like the 6d comes on the turn, you will stack this guy.
  • adproadpro
    Pantsonfire wrote: »
    1) This hand is simply too poor to play. You'll remember this time it would have made a full house. Well consider this. A lot of hands make it big on the turn and river so you have to ask yourself if you would have paid to get past the flop? Also keep in mind that in this particular hand your nice full house is losing to J7, J5, JJ, TT and 77. And in each of those cases you would lose your stack.

    2) There are two things to consider in this hand. First, the stack size of villain. His raise on the flop commits him to the pot. So you cannot simply call this. You must either fold or go all-in.

    Second, this is WA/WB scenario. You are either way ahead of TT, 99, 77, 66, KQ, K8, K5, KJ, JT, etc., or way behind Ax, 88, 55, KK, QQ. Now you have to decide for which set of hands does his betting pattern make sense. And remember Ax makes up a lot of hands. He has Ax most of the time if not all the time.

    3) Not only do you need to consider outs (BTW you have J outs), you need to consider the value of those outs. This is directly related to implied odds. If you hit a miracle out (like a gutshot), you need to predict how valuable it is. In your case the board is Tc 8d 7c and you need a 9 for the gutshot. If you put yourself in your opponent's shoes a 9 coming up is going to be very scary for him. And if he doesn't have a club, a 9c will probably cause him to shut down (or be very cautious). If he has two clubs, a 9c will screw you. So while you will make youir straight, it is using only one card in your hand and four straight on board. That is not an action board, it's an action killer. You only got money out of him on the end because he had a set and couldn't fold for that small bet. As well, how far would your jaw have dropped if he flipped over QJ?

    Now compare that to a hand where you have 7s5s and villain has QQ and the flop is Qs 8s 4h. If something like the 6d comes on the turn, you will stack this guy.


    Thank you very much for the comments. I like seeing what other people are thinking. It forces my mind open a little further.
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