Study vs. Play

IronDoc

Hi...as a former chess player, the guideline I followed was study 2 hours for every hour of play. How much of your dedicated poker time should be play and how much should be study? My feeling is that, at the more basal levels, study should take priority with selected play to gain experience applying your new knowledge...thoughts?

IronDoc

RAM_Eh

What a great question as I have been thinking the same way.

Started off over the last year or so not knowing much other than what you see on TV. Tryied to learn at the casino but lost too much money.

Over the last year I have read about 8 books on the subject and practiced quite a bit (with real money) at the casino and on line.

Generally I do very well.

I would like to take it to the next level. What do I need to do? Dave (or others) what would you suggest?

ol-stone-face

Yup great question. I find I have been studying a whole lot. Like many other players I hopped on the poker bandwagon because of what we've seen on T.V.

On the other hand I am more interested in Limit Holdem as opposed to NL. I love the mental aspect of the game, I don't just want to sit at a table and recklessly syphon off chips.

Right now the majority of my poker time is spent studying (Lee Jones' book) and then playing limit holdem against my computer. Not because the computer is a formidable foe (quite the opposite) but because I can focus solely on pre-flop play until I've burned into my brain what hands I can play where. Same goes for flop, turn and river play. Once I feel comfortable with concepts I will log on to pokerstars and pick a low-limit table and watch to see if I can pick things out. Who are the solid players, who are the calling stations, who are the fish. What cards are players playing and from what position? Only then do I join the table to test out what I learned.
I suspect that learning never ends, even for the pros. They take it to whole new level, no doubt but I would suspect they devote much of their poker time to working on their game.
So Dave, what is the norm? How much study vs play?

JasonA

On the other hand I am more interested in Limit Holdem as opposed to NL. I love the mental aspect of the game, I don't just want to sit at a table and recklessly syphon off chips.

JasonA

LOL..I actually laughed out loud when i read this. the "mental" aspect of the game. if by this u mean folding 8 out of 10 hands and playing like a robot grinding low limits. then you are definetly in the minority. nl is a much more creative skill intensive variety of poker. and i think experience is more important then studying don't get me wrong learning the basics then reading to up your skill level is important but studying can take you only so far. i have only skimmed a couple books (however i do have alot of friends who have read most books and shared there wisdom with me) and i play 4 15/30 tables on party to good success and have quite a few large money finishes in tournaments. i suppose it depends on the person. just make sure tables and charts don't become your crutch.

BBC Z

nl is a much more creative skill intensive variety of poker.

I disagree. If you assume that the cards will run the same for all players over a period of time, your profit in limit comes from playing your situations better than your opponent. i.e. You win 10 BB when heads up with an overpair while you only lose 6BB heads up when your opponent has the overpair.

In NL, since you dont play every pot for the same amount of money you can be a profitable player because just happened to suckout win a monster pot. You don't survive in limit with luck like that.

JasonA

your comment is very narrow. you can suck out and win one large pot at no limit. ya thats great. but you should know poker is all about the long run. i play 4 short handed 15/30 games at the same time and i play very close to the same all the time. raise with certain hands in certain postions etc etc in nl that would be impossible you have to take in a bunch of variables, and the slightest mistake can cost you huge not paying attention all the time can be extremely costly. out playing your opponent can reap much larger dividends then in limit holdem. I don't think u can possibly make a case for limit being more skill intensive.

BBC Z

I don't think u can possibly make a case for limit being more skill intensive.

I just think people overrate NL and underrate Limit when they talk about which game is more skillful.

Watch any NL tournament once the blinds are 100/200+ and everyone is just pushing in stacks. That doesnt quite reek of 'this overabundance of skill' that everyone likes to associate with NL.

Dave Scharf

Study v. practice: Hmmm.... I have never given this a lot of thought because I am obsessed (addicted?) with poker. I spend A LOT of time studying. In that I include actively thinking about poker. So, I spend a lot more time studying than playing.

Take a lesson from pro sports I guess. Truly gifted players can get away without a lot of practive (i.e. study). The workaday pros need desire (i.e. study) to see them through.

My best guess is that 80% of one's profit in poker comes from basic skills. Once you have them weighed off you will be fine. Then, hours and houts of study will make you slightly more profitable. But, that's what seperates Tiger Woods from your local clubs pro. Tiger has the extra 20%. And so does Gus Hanson, Annie Duke, Howard Lederer, Doyle, etc... As Sklansky has said (paraphrasing): "If I have 2% more skill then I will all of his money... eventually."

Addition: NL is a much more creative and skilled version of poker. Against skilled opponents, you will find it much harder to dominate a NL game as opposed to limit game.

ol-stone-face

JasonA wrote:

LOL..I actually laughed out loud when i read this. the "mental" aspect of the game.

Glad you enjoyed it...

I never said that limit was more mental then NL. I Just said I preferred it. I find it more relaxing as it fits my personality better. I guess when I have as much experience as you in limit it may become robotic. I hope not. I do agree that experience is the best, so thanks for your feedback. Seriously, I do appreciate it.

You're lucky to have poker friends teach you the way. So you never do more then skim a book here and there and you were able to pick up the game that easily? Not bad.

JasonA

I'm sort of a gamer so i catch on to new games rather fast i've also played ALOT of poker since i started playing last december. in reality u could also say watching my better friends is like studying and reading books is my next "plan of attack".