Okay.. I'm confused...
Hey all.. some background
I took a shot at a $20+2 game, and found the table was stupidly tight / passive. A raise was either minimum or stupidly big, like 7xBB. The only player I was worried about was "real life playa", as he was loose and aggressive, but he usually showed decent hands, and could fold when he needed.
Myself, I'm tight aggressive, picking spots and have only showed down a couple - premium - hands. Anyways, we're on the bubble here, and villain has been stealing from the button a lot, and I decide to play sheriff. I'm VERY confused here and would love to know what the hell happened?
Some stats:
Villain: VPIP 51.72 / PFR 31.03 / AF 1.63
Hero: VPIP 20.69 / PFR 12.07 / AF 2
anyways.. here's the hand - results whited out
Full Tilt Poker Game #7319634934: $20 + $2 Sit & Go (55652235), Table 1 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:42:12 ET - 2008/07/21
Seat 2: real life playa (4,515)
Seat 3: Eugene1982 (2,945)
Seat 4: DrTyore (2,975)
Seat 8: ubetcha8 (3,065)
Eugene1982 posts the small blind of 50
DrTyore posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DrTyore [9s Qs]
ubetcha8 folds
real life playa raises to 400
Eugene1982 folds
DrTyore raises to 900
real life playa calls 500
*** FLOP *** [4c 8h Tc]
DrTyore bets 2,075, and is all in
real life playa calls 2,075
DrTyore shows [9s Qs]
real life playa shows [Jh Ac]
*** TURN *** [4c 8h Tc] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [4c 8h Tc 7c] [Ad]
DrTyore shows Ace Queen high
real life playa shows a pair of Aces
real life playa wins the pot (6,000) with a pair of Aces
DrTyore stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6,000 | Rake 0
Board: [4c 8h Tc 7c Ad]
Seat 2: real life playa (button) showed [Jh Ac] and won (6,000) with a pair of Aces
Seat 3: Eugene1982 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: DrTyore (big blind) showed [9s Qs] and lost with Ace Queen high
Seat 8: ubetcha8 didn't bet (folded)
I took a shot at a $20+2 game, and found the table was stupidly tight / passive. A raise was either minimum or stupidly big, like 7xBB. The only player I was worried about was "real life playa", as he was loose and aggressive, but he usually showed decent hands, and could fold when he needed.
Myself, I'm tight aggressive, picking spots and have only showed down a couple - premium - hands. Anyways, we're on the bubble here, and villain has been stealing from the button a lot, and I decide to play sheriff. I'm VERY confused here and would love to know what the hell happened?
Some stats:
Villain: VPIP 51.72 / PFR 31.03 / AF 1.63
Hero: VPIP 20.69 / PFR 12.07 / AF 2
anyways.. here's the hand - results whited out
Full Tilt Poker Game #7319634934: $20 + $2 Sit & Go (55652235), Table 1 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:42:12 ET - 2008/07/21
Seat 2: real life playa (4,515)
Seat 3: Eugene1982 (2,945)
Seat 4: DrTyore (2,975)
Seat 8: ubetcha8 (3,065)
Eugene1982 posts the small blind of 50
DrTyore posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DrTyore [9s Qs]
ubetcha8 folds
real life playa raises to 400
Eugene1982 folds
DrTyore raises to 900
real life playa calls 500
*** FLOP *** [4c 8h Tc]
DrTyore bets 2,075, and is all in
real life playa calls 2,075
DrTyore shows [9s Qs]
real life playa shows [Jh Ac]
*** TURN *** [4c 8h Tc] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [4c 8h Tc 7c] [Ad]
DrTyore shows Ace Queen high
real life playa shows a pair of Aces
real life playa wins the pot (6,000) with a pair of Aces
DrTyore stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6,000 | Rake 0
Board: [4c 8h Tc 7c Ad]
Seat 2: real life playa (button) showed [Jh Ac] and won (6,000) with a pair of Aces
Seat 3: Eugene1982 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: DrTyore (big blind) showed [9s Qs] and lost with Ace Queen high
Seat 8: ubetcha8 didn't bet (folded)
Comments
I say let him go and steal it. You have 30BB and yer going to be playing a lot of 4 handed poker. I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish with the raise of 500 more.
Also, dont overestimate your opponents ability to fold.
I was going to type "If it was me, I'd fold to your flop push" but looking at that dry board, Im not sure why you'd want to push anyone out on the flop. Something smells fishy.
You played sherrif into a player that may not understand what the concept of table sherrif means, and you did it with a marginal hand pre-flop and basically a 4 out nothing hand post flop when there was no need to do so.
You created and trapped yourself into a massive pot with a very marginal/poor hand against a loose player. Let him have the tiny pots, make big pots in better situations vs these types of players.
I know that I lost the hand (moose)... I know that I pushed / raised preflop with a marginal hand at best.. what I don't know is the reasoning behind his call of my > pot sized bet with A high jack kicker...
Mark
You are applying your methodology of reasoning to someone for whom it does not matter.
What was his reasons? He likes shiny aces. His name is Jack. His name is Jack and he has a dog named Ace.
Who knows what his "reasoning" is, and because of this it is up to you to choose when to engage this type loose/action junkie player. You chose to do so with an unloaded gun, when you had plenty of time to wait for a few bullets to load the gun.
Sure, he played badly, but you already knew he was a wild, bad player. Why be surprised when a bad player plays badly?
ship it.
LOL... most likely.... or psychic
As for the original question... the raise seemed fishy, and the all-in even fishier. I guess he read you like a book.
If that's the analysis that you wanted, don't white-out his hand
+1.. I have it burned into my mind that folding is bad, so if someone steals 2 or 3 times in a row, I suddenly feel like I need to 'put them back in their place' by either raising before they can, or playing a big pot against them. The latter being far more detrimental.
oh and I don't go all in with air against an aggro maniac on the bubble when he obiviously has a big hand.
Look at it this way, on that flop, what are you shoving?
A made set, or TPTK? Unlikely, as you'd want the action and either check or put in a modest bet.
A draw? Then his Ace high is best at the moment and you need to catch a card (who knows maybe it's a 4 out inside straight draw) and you already know he's loose so he may want to gamble. Best case you have the Qc9c and have a 15 outer.
TPWK? Again heads up on a dry board why the shove? You want his chips in the middle so you'd be reasonable especially if he views himself as aggressive
A bluff? That makes good sense too, try to push him off the pot with nothing, and if that's the case. I like his chances with AJo in that spot.
You just picked the wrong time to shove. Even without the A hitting the board, you lose that hand.
I also feel the re-raise was a bit large and doesn't really leave you with enough chips to do anything but shove. A pot size bet leaves you broke. If you wanted to gamble shove raise pre-flop. He's likely still calling with his hand but makes it much less attractive.
The blinds were so small in relation to your stack. Let him steal away. Heck he's not really even stealing until the antes hit. How many times did you notice him raising the button? Maybe his loose play gets even looser OTB?