When to raise with overpair to the board

Tilter

I was playing on Party Poker and got JJ on the button in 0.50/1 game.

By the time it got to me, I had to call 2 bets with a for sure cap by initial raiser, so I call and initial raiser caps. 4 see flop, it is 972. I bet out, and it is 2 bets to call when it comes back around, so I call and the flop is then capped with all 4 of us calling. I thought maybe an overpair higher than mine or a set was made. Turn is a 2, I check call 1 bet. River is a another low card and I check call 1 bet. I win as other person had TT and Q9, but I was wondering if I should have been the one raising on the turn etc and getting value for my overpair to the board. Was I correct to check call or should I have been leading the table.

micr0be

Maybe the games really are loose at party...but capped preflop I am not so confident my jj is best

SirWatts

I've been in similar situations in low-limit games on pacific poker, which is probably about the same level of play. Normally, you would be tossing that JJ either preflop or as soon as you don't make a set at least. However in these games people follow the in for one in for 4 preflop strategy, so it's hard to know for sure if someone really has a bigger pair. I've done what you did, just fire in call after call and hope they're truly maniacs. I was absolutely shocked when I won a pot like this, and I think it's actually happened to me twice now. You're sitting there beating yourself up over what a terrible play you're making and then out of nowhere you take down an enormous pot. If the betting doesn't slow up on the turn it's probably a sign to get out since generally people don't mess around too much on the big bets. It's probably a safer bet to just get out of a pot like this, but if your pair holds up one time in 4 you're probably +EV to call it down once you're in for the flop. Talk about high variance though... Also I've generally only done this in a game where I know the players are insane or I just got in the game and I want to find out. If I know even one of the players in the pot is smart enough to not be in there with crap I would get out if he raised on the flop, but I might think AK if he just called. It seems like a terrible play, but it also seems to work I guess??

BBC Z

The key to if your overpair is good is the number of opponents involved in the hand. If it's 2-3, then your overpair is likely the best hand. If it's 8-9 then toss it away..

I would have played the hand the same way. Maybe I would have folded the JJ preflop for that much raising, but when the flop comes low I'm in it to the river.

If the betting doesn't slow up on the turn it's probably a sign to get out since generally people don't mess around too much on the big bets.

Good advice.. I'll make it 3 or cap on the flop with an overpair (not everyone at the tables got the best hand).. But if I suspect I'm beat, I won't call 2 on the turn (for fear of it capping on the turn) and would prefer to check-call to the river.

DJP

BBC Z wrote:

The key to if your overpair is good is the number of opponents involved in the hand. If it's 2-3, then your overpair is likely the best hand. If it's 8-9 then toss it away..

I like that advice too, barring any flush or straight draws on the board. Overpairs are usually good to me.

Unknown

I'd play it the same.

On a related note, last night during the $100 MTT at Stars I folded an overpair to the flop for possibly the first time ever. I have TT on button, about 20K in chips at (I believe) the 400/800 level. MP pushes all-in for about 3K, LP calls (similiar stack to mine), I call. Flop 783 2-suited. LP checks, I bet about 2400 or so, he check-raises all-in, and after some thought, I fold.

I never do that.

He had a set of sevens, which is pretty much exactly what I put him on. Lucky guess, lol.

In limit, though, I can't imagine a situation where I'd fold an overpair to a more-or-less non-threatening board. That being said, I wouldn't have pushed the jacks any harder than you did, either.

Cheers,
all_aces