Be Honest Guys....
Ok, without any kind of seventh grade childish "you suck" remarks or uncalled for comments, lets have a mature topic and discuss how many people here can honestly say they win online.
I consider myself to be an average player whos plays tight agressive and occasionaly takes a calculated risk should the pot odds warrent them.
I've play live at Casino Rama and Port Perry monthly on the 5/10 table and always at least double my money. To be honest, I usually buy in with $200 and finish off anywhere between $300 - $400 in my stack. I always set stop losses when I play. If I ever lose more than half my money, I'm out. I'll go eat, goto the washroom just anything to get away from the table and come back at a later time when my losing streak discourages me no longer. My point is, I can handle myself at a real table. I can get up and walk away happy.
Now... online. Thats a totally different story. I can honestly say I will no longer play online. For a variety of reasons:
1) Too easy to gamble with a click of the mouse (Its what they count on)
2) Exchange rates at Party Poker are ridiculous (Canadian to US)
3) My AA gets cracked
4) My KK gets cracked
5) I keep getting players hitting the river river and sucking me out
6) Basicly I lose!
Now before anyone asks me to examine my play, I'm a step ahead of you. I **ALWAYS** review my hand history. Party Poker stores it locally which is very helpful. After every session I review my play to see what I did wrong and what I could have avoided.
The problem comes at the 3/6 table when someone plays 4
6 :spade: after the pot has been raised twice sometimes even three times. I may have AA in the pocket. The flop comes A 3 K. We get another road of heavy betting. Turn shows a 5. Finally after another round of heavy betting, the flop shows a 7 and this guy gets his straight beating both my trip aces and the other guys pair of kings.
Now I know already what your reply is to that. "Thats poker". I got a reply right back "It happens too much online and NEVER at a casino". And quite frankly I'm sick of it.
I know everyone is tired of bad beat storys. But all of my hands constantly get cracked.
Now heres the question. How many of you can be honest like myself and admit to this defeat? There are 10 people online per table. Not all 10 are winners. Which one are you?
I consider myself to be an average player whos plays tight agressive and occasionaly takes a calculated risk should the pot odds warrent them.
I've play live at Casino Rama and Port Perry monthly on the 5/10 table and always at least double my money. To be honest, I usually buy in with $200 and finish off anywhere between $300 - $400 in my stack. I always set stop losses when I play. If I ever lose more than half my money, I'm out. I'll go eat, goto the washroom just anything to get away from the table and come back at a later time when my losing streak discourages me no longer. My point is, I can handle myself at a real table. I can get up and walk away happy.
Now... online. Thats a totally different story. I can honestly say I will no longer play online. For a variety of reasons:
1) Too easy to gamble with a click of the mouse (Its what they count on)
2) Exchange rates at Party Poker are ridiculous (Canadian to US)
3) My AA gets cracked
4) My KK gets cracked
5) I keep getting players hitting the river river and sucking me out
6) Basicly I lose!
Now before anyone asks me to examine my play, I'm a step ahead of you. I **ALWAYS** review my hand history. Party Poker stores it locally which is very helpful. After every session I review my play to see what I did wrong and what I could have avoided.
The problem comes at the 3/6 table when someone plays 4
6 :spade: after the pot has been raised twice sometimes even three times. I may have AA in the pocket. The flop comes A 3 K. We get another road of heavy betting. Turn shows a 5. Finally after another round of heavy betting, the flop shows a 7 and this guy gets his straight beating both my trip aces and the other guys pair of kings.Now I know already what your reply is to that. "Thats poker". I got a reply right back "It happens too much online and NEVER at a casino". And quite frankly I'm sick of it.
I know everyone is tired of bad beat storys. But all of my hands constantly get cracked.
Now heres the question. How many of you can be honest like myself and admit to this defeat? There are 10 people online per table. Not all 10 are winners. Which one are you?
Comments
So what did I do about this? I switched to playing no-limit holdem online.
Maybe you should try some nolimit. Start out at a small blind structure game like 0.10-0.25 or 0.25-0.50 blinds and play very solid cards. People will pay you off even though you will have a tight image. The players at this level dont pay attention to your previous play too much they just want to play some no limit like they see on the WPT. If you beat these limits and you like it move up to the bigger blind games.
but i've expierenced bad beats at both, and thats poker....get 'em next time
make em pay for chasing gutshots and flushs to a paired board.......play your 'A' game and you should win in the long run
While situations will vary me playing online or B&M, i would and try to play B&M far more often. I think Dick Hertz said it right, playing 2/4 or 3/6 online may well be tougher than lots of 10/20 games at the casino
2. Listen to Dick, play NL or NL sit n gos.
3. Keep playing online but find what works for you.
I play all sit n gos myself.
I am "up" online as well as off. Not a lot, but "up" all the same.. GL
You make a good point about the click of a mouse is so easy and the money doesn't seem as real. I find myself firing in chips when i would never do it at a B&M. I try to stick to NL and Tourneys and make a profit at them.
I know what you are saying about, 'Be honest about wins or losses on here' because i have a lot of buddies that are brutal and I know they lose but they let on like they win.
No matter how solid you play on the 2/4 or 3/6 tables, it's tough to consistantly win and show a profit because of all the chasing.
I dont understand what you are trying to say. If you play limit holdem and DON'T ALWAYS playing according to pot odds, you aren't playing properly.
No.. Your problem is that you can't beat loose games because you dont understand the variance issues that loose games bring up. Loose games and tight games are completely different beasts. You WANT 36o calling you down when you have AA. you WANT people calling your premium goods with crap. You WANT all those crummy limpers when you hold acerag suited..
:rolleyes:
Nice troll post, I can't believe you got 6 people agreeing with you.
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Oh my.
i played at all the sites basically, and recently bought into paradise....
i was doing awesome at the 10 NL table, blinds are .05-.10
i actually turned 14.97 into 100.00.... then down to 60 then up to 80 then down to 70 then up to 100 again ( u get the idea )
so then im like k, time to upgrade my self.... so i go to the 25NL table
played tight, when i got cards i basically went all in, i had QQ, got broken... no HUGE BIGGIE it does happen, got AK bet big had a caller, ace comes on flop, then on 4th street a king comes..... i got all in, guy calls, he hits a straight i lose. ( straight was A to 5 ) i then get KK go all in get a caller and my KK get broken... it took me roughly 2 days to turn that 14.97 into 100 and i lost it in about 10 min at the 25NL table....
online to me is BS sometimes.... i see ALLOT OF FLUSHES i mean allot and usally there is 2 people that have them which i find odd. i dont know maybe its the random of the program that shuffles the cards but i find bigger hands happen more often then at the card room.
so after the rant....
online sucks but its addictive so i will still play it...
i also don't buy into the 'online sites are rigged' hype...people always look for excuses why they lose hands....i see crazy hands at the b&m as well, its no different....online you see a *tonne* more hands per hour, especially if you play 2-3 tables at once, and so it makes it look like you get more 'bad beats'....you also get just as many horrible chasers who are sometimes rewarded for their play....it happens.......i also make most of my money from the types of hands that are supposed to make money playing no limit (big pairs)
and not to brag, but i'll support what i'm saying with data from pokertracker:
starting_hand times_dealt win_pct amt_won
AA 57 84.2105 726.5
KJo 108 37.963 497.37
22 50 26 488.53
JJ 58 56.8966 402.28
44 46 19.5652 362.55
AQo 91 47.2527 348.24
KK 48 83.3333 311.75
AKo 84 51.1905 278.15
AJo 99 35.3535 264.07
QTs 41 26.8293 218.03
KTs 35 31.4286 205.05
AQs 32 59.375 181.95
QQ 57 78.9474 171.41
J9s 34 17.6471 171.2
KJs 37 56.7568 129.2
99 54 46.2963 124.45
43s 30 10 118.85
QJs 22 27.2727 117.7
AKs 29 62.069 117.45
66 48 16.6667 102.35
ATo 102 31.3725 84.7
33 58 17.2414 72.63
9 of my best 22 hands are pairs....and aces are easily first.....now granted, with only 11k hands, there are some big winning/losing hands that skew the data a bit...but its still a good sample....and overall, i've made $2660 at 7.7 BB/100 hands....and most of these hands were on partypoker, mostly on the $100 tables
as for b&m i've made just under 10k for the year, 8k of that since july, when poker became my job (for the time being)...and i feel i'm becoming a better player every month
anyways, i just get kind of tired of hearing the same old story of 'online is rigged' and 'my good hands always lose' so i thought i'd show some evidence of a winning player....even if i get flamed :P
ps. i should also point out that all my poker profits started with a single $25 deposit to ultimatebet a year ago....i think anyone who truly puts the time and effort into becoming a better poker player can become a better poker player....don't blame programs/other players/whatever else; take the time to figure out what you are doing incorrectly
I was always playing the low limit tables 2/4, 3/6 and found the same thing you did. I dont think the sites are rigged because the site has too much to loose if it is found out but there are some very bad players out there at the low limit tables.
I found my luck changed a bit when I started playing 10/20, and 15/30. I won back all the money I lost at the small tables and a bit more. It is hard to go in with nothing at 10/20.
I also found the challenge was to look for the right table first and watch if there were any maniacs there. If there were I would look for another table.
I still play at PP but really only for the tournaments.
Thats exactly what I ment from my first line of my original post "Lets be mature about this". And coming from a "senior member". Really classy.
Try rearranging your words next time.
I never said that online poker is rigged. I was providing my input as to why I will no longer play online. If what your poker tracker data proves to be correct, then I congradulate you for your effort, especially after a single $25 deposit.
I want to thank you for not using any lowbrow comments in your rebuttal as this thread was ment for those who have a tad more intellect than the status quo.
PS. No flames attached to this reply.
What I usually do is play at $0.5/1 for a little while, make $6, leave and then play a $5 SNG.
The problem I have playing Limit games on-line is that I am always aware of how much money I have, how much I am up or down and I know it can affect my play.
Where in a tournament you get 800 or 1000 chips (your money is gone as soon as you start the tournament) and all you are doing is trying to get more chips. The same applies when I play at B&M not too worried about my money when I have a stack of chips in front of me.
I think maybe you problem is that you are trying to make money on this instead of sitting back and enjoying the game. (Do both)
Oh BTW I put in $100 at Party on May, cashed a $100 out in June, and have basically been playing for free since then.
When you say that your hands lose more often than they should, then that's the ONLY point you are trying to make.
I have been to a casino maybe a dozen times and only down once ..not a big amount....I typically have played 2/5 rama or similair game (player-wise) that previous posts here have called unbeatable for the same reasons you posted at online (people sticking around with everything.....the rake is another story). I have found it to be easily beatable even staying a little looser than I am online.
Online the same thing, I am up a fair amount considering the limits I play but there are those days when nothing holds up..had one last night and it just sucks..but hey the math backs up our plays so we have to continue...the only problem is math doesn't remember what it has already done and try to even things out for you (it will even out long term to approxiamte the pot odds we live by)....kind of like that avg rate of return we are supposed to be getting long term from the stock market indices.
You obviously can not analyse or comprehend the English language. Out of 15 posts, you are the first to point that out. Either your literacy skills are extraordinary or they are sub-ape.
I'll let the public decide.
Well, while he may have been a bit blunt in how he put it, what he said is not that far from the truth. Look at your original list
1) Too easy to gamble with a click of the mouse (Its what they count on)
2) Exchange rates at Party Poker are ridiculous (Canadian to US)
3) My AA gets cracked
4) My KK gets cracked
5) I keep getting players hitting the river river and sucking me out
6) Basicly I lose!
3-4 of your 6 points are basically complaints about bad beats (depending how you lump in the generic number 6 comment).
I think a more in depth analysis however would show that for now you are a player who lacks discipline and control. Your first comment is a complete indication of that. It is not be easier to gamble with a click of a button if you are disciplined. You should be playing your cards and your opponents, and the need to gamble itself should never be a factor if you want to win.
I suspect your initial great starting hands get cracked for a lot more then they should because you can never let them go. AA is a great hand but if another player calls your raise and shoves after a flop of KKQ, then it may be time to let them go. However people who lack control and feel their best pre flop hand DESERVES to win tend to play them to their death and magnify their losses. Then when they lose a lot more then they should they get mad at their opponents for calling a raise pre flop with K 10 and beating them after that KKQ flop even if the raise pre flop was 100 chips and the betting after went into the thousands of chips. The disciplined player loses 100 chips on that hand and moves on, the undiciplined one loses his stack and complains on message boards
Other factors mentioned include the fact that a ton more hands are seen online then live so you will see a lot more crazy hands played. People also tend to remember the bad beats a lot more then the good beats (good beats meaning beating a bad player playing badly ).
The one other point you made was with regard to exchange rates. That can be frustrating for Canadians. Even if you have a US funds account, netteller will only deposit into a Canadian funds account meaning you need to exchange the funds. You do want to do as few currency exchanges as possible so the best way around this is to deposit a sufficient starting stake into Netteller and withdraw winnings once in a while when you have enough of a surplus.
I have played online for 7 months now. Every month has produced consistent positive results, though usually within a month there are 1 or 2 "hell days" where no matter how well I play or how often I am a dominating favorite I simply lose. Three days ago I lost 3 out of 3 all ins with a pair vs 2 undercards including AA vs J 6 off late in the $10 rebuy and I also lost 7 of 8 dominating hands (ie: AK vs KQ) all in pre flop. Trust me when I say that day did not thrill me, but in the long run I want that J 6 calling my AA every time because I know in the long run that a lot more chips and cash will flow toward me for every bit I lose in that manner.
I think BBC Z has a point; in your opening post you have 6 points:
4 of which are:
Most of us are agreeing that Limit on-line can deal you quite a number of bad beats, however played properly and with patience you will be on the plus side over all.
I started out with $50 at .50/1.00 limit and quickly switched to .25/.50 as my buy in dwindled. Soon it was all gone, and I thought I'd try one more $50 buy in but at the S&G's, since a friend was doing well there. Since then, I have made about $425 S&G profit, so am up about 375 including my first $50 bust out. (it's a nice spare time hobby for me, nothing more)
In my mind, the S&G's are much easier than the low-limit limit games. As said before, you can play ultra tight (which I do) and still get paid off, as people just don't pay attention.
I just think you may want to change the game you play. Low-limit rake is more of a killer, and for whatever reason it was night and day for me when I swiched to S&G's.
I also find it quite funny when I watch WPT on TV. I often think to myself, man if I was playing that guy on-line, my notes would say for example Gus Hansen:
"terrible player, plays everything, chases and bluffs a lot."
But that's the difference in games (big $$ vs low limit), even when it's the same game. The WPT (pro) style of play seen on TV does not apply to low-limit S&G's. You make your money from the people who think it does. You have to learn what works for the game you are playing I suppose.
You better not be talking about me, lol. Seriously though, you need to find a game that suits you. I have been successful playing in s n g's and limit ring games online and untill recently havent made a dime playing mtt's. Mtt's are attractive because of the large payouts but for the most part are a waste of time, I win more in a half hour playing limit ring games then I do finishing in the money in a MTT that takes me 3 hours.
OSKid, I can only imagine who you were talking about..hahaha.
stp
I totally agree with this statement. When I am playing well (ie. not drunk or tired or frustrated) I almost always make money. Deposited $105.00 in the past 6 months and cashed out $2686.00 playing predominantly limit hold em $1/2. Have faith, stay discipline and focused.
stp
It's harder (but not very hard, if you make the effort) to track B&M results. I think a lot of people who have convinced themselves they're winners at B&M get a big dose of reality online after they max out their credit cards every month.
Apparently only 5% of people playing online are long-term winning players. Where this number came from--and whether or not it's true--is beyond me, but I've heard it said a few times. I suspect that 80% of that 5% is comprised of people who actively read books and forums, and post about poker, but who can say.
Regards,
all_aces
Senior member just means you like to post a lot..it doesnt mean you are "The Man" ....
uh oh.....101 posts..nevermind
Poker is not entirely a guessing game as to who currently has the best hand (except after all the cards are out). If there are more cards to come -- you can (and will) be beat more than 0% of the time. Brick and mortar, cyberspace, dining room table.
Deal with it.
In addition, I have played 30 hours of live play per month plus 8 Live NL Freeze out tourneys per month. I am up $1360 in live B&M play. I can assure you that I have suffered just as many ridiculous beats in live play as online. My AA have been cracked just as much in NL tournneys in live play as online.
Avoid playing low limit (structured) games if you are worried about people calling raises and beating your better pre-river hand from time to time. However, those games can be very profitable if you play with the required patience.
Anyone who makes the statement that he has played in a B&M 5-10 game a dozen times and had nothing but winning sessions is lying or cheating.
heres some tips:
1- never stone cold bluff
2- value betting is your friend (create pots for yourself as you will see that you must play TIGHT-- so when you do pick one up you need to get paid-- as online you make up multiple hours loss in one good pot).
3- Your pretty much always going to get odds to CALL on a loose online table
so make sure you will have the nuts if you do chase!!!
4- play only your top hands (meaning chop down your starting requirements -B&M so that your game is tightened WAY WAY up.
Just my thoughts as i too had a very tough time making the adjustment
I now profit regularly but have reduced my game to a NUTS game.
I only persue hands that may develop into or are the nuts.