Limit Hand for Analysis

Monteroy

I generally play NL sit and go and tournaments but I have been trying and doing fairly well in a few limit tournaments lately. Yesterday semi late in the 30+3 limit tournament on Pokerstars this hand took place.

PokerStars Game #768497622: Tournament #2958549, Hold'em Limit - Level V (150/300) - 2004/10/14 - 00:15:29 (ET)
Table '2958549 12' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 2: playpoker750 (1520 in chips)
Seat 3: Chinster (7178 in chips)
Seat 4: gothicguy (2115 in chips)
Seat 5: BrewMan (1870 in chips)
Seat 6: 5 Stars (2525 in chips)
Seat 7: Monteroy (2105 in chips)
Seat 8: ScubaDuff (1530 in chips)
Seat 9: bs7birdies (4197 in chips)
ScubaDuff: posts small blind 75
bs7birdies: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Monteroy [Ad 6c]
playpoker750: folds
Chinster: folds
gothicguy: folds
BrewMan: folds
5 Stars: folds
Monteroy: raises 150 to 300
ScubaDuff: raises 150 to 450
bs7birdies: folds
Monteroy: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [Ac Tc 6s]
ScubaDuff: bets 150
Monteroy: calls 150
*** TURN *** [Ac Tc 6s] [4s]
ScubaDuff: bets 300
Monteroy: raises 300 to 600
LuckyAces1 is connected
ScubaDuff: calls 300
*** RIVER *** [Ac Tc 6s 4s] [5c]
ScubaDuff: checks
Monteroy: bets 300
ScubaDuff: raises 30 to 330 and is all-in
Monteroy: calls 30
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ScubaDuff: shows [Js Jd] (a pair of Jacks)
Monteroy: shows [Ad 6c] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
Monteroy collected 3210 from pot


To me it seemed like a fairly typical hand where a person overplayed his pocket pair after the flop.

However, the reaction it created from this person was very interesting. I won't post everything as he followed me for the next 1 hour ranting but most of it was along the lines of

ScubaDuff [observer] said, "you are god fu.ckin awful Monteroy"
Monteroy: folds
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "A6o"
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "you should kill urself"
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "ur that bad"
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "why waste 30$?"
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "ur not gonna place"
Monteroy said, "yes A 6 o raising on button when folded to me, unheard of"
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "you'll be out soon"
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "yeah unheard of"
bs7birdies: folds
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "re-raised"
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "u call"
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "moron"
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "god moron"
playpoker750: folds
Chinster: folds
BrewMan collected 375 from pot
BrewMan: doesn't show hand
ScubaDuff [observer] said, "shut up you FUC.KING CANADIAN"


Hey, have to love it when they bring up the Canadian angle


My limit tournament play is somewhat limited. I know in NL in that position I would either raise 3x blind or fold (depending on my chips and blind chips), but in limit it seemed reasonable to raise because even a reraise is not that hard to call, unlike NL where someone shoving all in causes you to fold without seeing the flop.

A6o is hardly a fantastic hand, but in limit it didnt seem quite that bad to play it like I did. I found the limit experience interesting because it allowed me to play certain hands to the river (and usually win) that are a lot harder to play in NL (ie: mid pps when you think your opponent had overcards that missed). Any feedback from those with more limit experience is appreciated.

Sadly I finished 20th (money for 18) in that tournament.

ScottyZ

I probably would have played it the same way. I might have played it faster on the flop myself, but waiting until the turn to raise is good too I think.

Nothing wrong with calling the pre-flop re-raise.

Your ranting opponent has no clue, although, his play in this hand is not insane. It's his criticism of your play that is way off.

I particularly *hate* this play though:

ScubaDuff: raises 30 to 330 and is all-in

The 30 chips and a chair are worth far more than a 30 chip value bet, especially when the betting throughout the entire hand has pointed to the fact that the JJ is no good.

My limit tournament play is somewhat limited.

bah-dum-pish!

ScottyZ

BBC Z

Monteroy said, "yes A 6 o raising on button when folded to me, unheard of"

Don't educate the fish please

BigChrisEl

I seriously don't see anything wrong with your play.

Making the starting bet to make sure that both the big and small blinds what to play, and then pitching in the extra 150 because you already have money in the pot because he raised the minimum bet (Seems like he is defending his blinds). I would call there too.

Then with an Ace on the table after the flop and how could he seriously think that his Jacks can be holding up? Also there were 2 clubs on the table at that point as well. If thought his jacks are good then he should have bet more then minimum bet on the flop, but instead he gives you a cheap 4th street.

If anything he should have threw his cards away on 4th street or just checked because if you were calling his bets up to that point. If you started raising on 4th it would have told me you have trips and are trying to scare any flush draws out of the hand.

He is just upset that you slow played 2 pair on the flop and he fell for it, where he should have bet a lot more pre-flop.

Nothing wrong with your play, lot’s wrong with his.

Also you can tell some knows they made a bad play when they start complain about your play.

Monteroy

Remember, it was limit poker not NL poker (hence the title), so he did not really have a lot of choice as to how much he could bet.

If it was NL I imagine he would have shoved and I would have folded (though the amount of people these days who still call all ins with A 6 amaze me - and usually outdraw me :banghead: )


"Don't educate the fish please "

The interesting thing was I don't think he was a particularly bad player, though he certainly was one that had some emotional control issues (seriously he ranted for nearly an hour and the one reply I made in that whole time was the one I posted).

A6o as the button is one of those hands that sort of frustrates me. It is not a great hand, and it is the type of hand bad people do overplay, especially if an ace (without a 6 ) hits on the flop. It was the 6 on the flop that made me feel confident, if that 6 was a 7 it would have been much harder to call as I did.

The fish is the non blind player who calls a raise pre flop with A 6 or the large all in in NL ( amazes me how many A low and KQ hands call substantial all ins). A 6 o is definitely one of the potential for fish greatness type hands, but I did feel that it can also be played in the way I played it.

If the flop was A 9 2 and it played out like that I would say he would have had a better arguement to make about how I played it (though I still think he let emotions take over post flop with a beaten hand).

An example of that was in a NL game where I had AK raised from $1 to $5 pre flop one caller. Flop was A J 2 , I bet $10 person calls turn 7 I bet 20 person calls, river 9 he checks I check he wins with A 9 o. I thought that person played that hand extremely poorly and got lucky.

MrBluffsAlot

Monteroy wrote:

(though the amount of people these days who still call all ins with A 6 amaze me - and usually outdraw me

:banghead: A-4 too! :banghead:

Sorry Aces couldn't resist

Unknown

Lol thanks Bluff....

As for this hand, you played it fine Monteroy. And I have been noticing a BIG increase in the number of players who make fun of Canadians. I had a run-in with one such player last night at the 30/60 as a matter of fact.

This can only mean one thing: Canadians are starting to kick some serious poker ass, and the rest of the world doesn't like it one bit.

Regards,
all_aces
:canada:

Pigga

if he didnt realize that you easily, could of had an ace (raise on the button)
i think its an easy laydown on the turn, but he was too 'attached' to it
he did it to himself, and once u made two pair on the flop, he was going out gaurenteed

just because u were re-raised preflop, i wouldnt lay it down for a measly 150 more, i'd call and see what i hit, if i miss, i drop it, if i hit 2 pair (like you) i play it hard to protect against 2 possible flush draws (on turn) and crack the AK/AQ/AJ i would expect to see at showdown