It's better to win a small pot than lose a big one.
Ever heard that one before? Ever thought it about it and said "hey, thats some good advice. I hate losing big pots."
Have you ever REALLY thought about what that means? "It's better to win a small pot than lose a big one" but, as we all know, it's better to win a big pot than a small pot.
Whenever I hear someone utter this phrase, they usually pushed all-in on the flop for a massive overbet with a nut-like hand (off the top of my head... say.. oh.. two raggy pair against a LAG) and shut everyone out of the hand. They pat themselves on the back over the good job they did winning the small pot.
Little do these people even realize the amount of money they leave on the table. They're scared, nay, FRIGHTENED to ever put their money in behind (pot odds or no). If there's a villan in the hand, regardless of how poor his draw is or how bad he plays post-flop, he must be immediately shut out.
It's lunacy.
Here's what I say. It's better to lose small pots and win big ones. When you get your monster hands, thinking about maximizing EV. Forget the bullshit about the pain and torture you will feel if you leave your game busted out when you got it all-in good. Extract the chips when you can. Sometimes, you just have to deal with the variance and ride it out. Villian made a horrible two pair on the river? Deal with it, it's poker. You played a big pot with a huge equity advantage. Good job!
Anyway, god dammit stop being so results-oriented. Win big pots, they're worth more than the small ones.
Have you ever REALLY thought about what that means? "It's better to win a small pot than lose a big one" but, as we all know, it's better to win a big pot than a small pot.
Whenever I hear someone utter this phrase, they usually pushed all-in on the flop for a massive overbet with a nut-like hand (off the top of my head... say.. oh.. two raggy pair against a LAG) and shut everyone out of the hand. They pat themselves on the back over the good job they did winning the small pot.
Little do these people even realize the amount of money they leave on the table. They're scared, nay, FRIGHTENED to ever put their money in behind (pot odds or no). If there's a villan in the hand, regardless of how poor his draw is or how bad he plays post-flop, he must be immediately shut out.
It's lunacy.
Here's what I say. It's better to lose small pots and win big ones. When you get your monster hands, thinking about maximizing EV. Forget the bullshit about the pain and torture you will feel if you leave your game busted out when you got it all-in good. Extract the chips when you can. Sometimes, you just have to deal with the variance and ride it out. Villian made a horrible two pair on the river? Deal with it, it's poker. You played a big pot with a huge equity advantage. Good job!
Anyway, god dammit stop being so results-oriented. Win big pots, they're worth more than the small ones.
Comments
Well said
One more thing to touch on is that these players (cr rag flops with big hands) are extremely easy to play against. You will tend to get easy reads from them eg. cbet, fire turn hard (has a hand) or cbet, check turn (doesnt have a hand). And there is extreme cases they raise pre check flop turn and river (under pair of missed paint). I guess I'm just saying that its abc poker and easier to steel pots when they are weak and easier to get away from you top pair hands. Plain and simple they rarely trap unless they have the NUTS.
Call?
Raise?
Push?
If you're not going to raise this at least admit you need help!
I think the reference is more in terms of post flop play when you have a made hand.
This is a good observation. People tend to have a selective memory and remember the times they were burned with runner, runner cards when they were well ahead in the hand on the flop. As a result, if there is a decent pot already, the preference is to take it down now thereby avoiding another runner, runner 'memory' from occurring. I think this is common when a person has a decent starting pair AA-QQ, and they try to push everyone off the hand with a huge continuation bet on the flop.
Exactly
There are times to play it fast, if you r 78s and get 3 bet and u peel. flop 783s I am cr allin, weak leading, anything i can do to get it in. Obviously this would be a different scenario than a limped pot, where I think BBC is correct to let your opponent build the pot. By the way I also think that people should be using the weak lead more often it looks SO MUCH like your chasing.
what the hell is the point of this thread? that winning a small pot is better than losing a big pot? that winning a big pot is better than winning a small pot? maybe i'm lost, but i'm under the impression that both of these full under the "no shit" category. who the hell is arguing the opposite? wait, don't answer that. i don't want to know.
did you ever stop to consider that these phrases may be better used and understood in more specific terms and not the general way you are choosing to interpret them? oh yeah, this is BBC Z. i should know he doesn't consider anything.
To put it plain a simple for those having trouble - Don't push your opponents out of the pot with a made hand.
Did you ever stop to consider that this paragraph makes no sense? BBC Z is not using these phrases in a general way. And fuck you again for attacking BBC Z over what I can only guess is a personal vendetta.
/g2
Man-love? ???
All the posts that he made both in the other thread and this one do make sense and have a place. (though that doesn't mean I necessarilly agree with him..I'm just always glad to have another intelligent interesting poster saying what he means!)
For the OP I agree... I like asking friends who tend to overbet "Why do you hate money so much?"
/g2
It's that those cute little one-liners that you hear people utter that may make sense when you don't think about them, turn out to be terrible in the long-run.
That and I think that people are overly scared of being drawn out on and that forces them to make mistakes.
I thought this thread was about man-love?!
okay, i get your point then. it is very true that there are players out there that are scared to be drawn out on and therefore play too aggressively. as a result they "lose" the chance to gain the most chips possible. i am also willing to concede that some of these players may have these feelings as a result of one-liners like you have suggested.
that being said, do i think that many of them are a result of one-liners (enough to warrant a thread to the topic)? no i don't. i am extremely realistic (some would say pessimistic) about people in general, and even i would not argue that there are that many people who are influenced to a negative degree by one-liners such as the example you suggest. thems peoples must be damn stoopids to let one line alter them's attitude and approach to poker.
(yes, i am saying that i don't think that there are that many dumb poker players who would be that influenced by one-liners...wow, possibly the first time ever that i've defended the lack of general stupidity of people. while i'm writing this i'm already doubting myself.)
1) i was being sarcastic and i have "updated" my opinion in the canada reference thread (hopefully to your liking)
2) i felt obligated to point out that your post (see above) is accusing me of attacking due to a personal vendetta, and yet you are attacking me in response to a personal vendetta (i.e. the canada reference).
ironic? quite. humorous for me? very.
3) i do not "attack" BBC Z because i think he's a fucking asshole (i.e. because i have a personal vendetta). i "attack" his argument points because they often don't make sense and focus more on arrogance and lack of dialogue than almost all the other posts in this forum. if you made comments similar to his (again, see your comment above), then you will also get "attacked" by me (see the post you are currently reading - possible again if you missed it the first time).
take care
EDIT: and this thread has become about serious hot man-love. don't try to deny it.
I think you overestimate your opponents.
I've heard people say "well, I'm pot committed" (when they clearly aren't), or call due to "pot odds" which actually aren't there.
A big percentage of people you play against learn their poker strategy from watching WPT reruns on CityTV, and they don't understand the phrases they are using that ultimately guide decisions that they make.
I think it's good for BBC to challenge our thinking. There's no one perfect way to play poker....every once in a while we need to step out of group-think.
challenge our thinking? that's what is going on here?
Seriously dude, just go away. Put me on ignore so everyone doesn't have to deal with you and you don't clutter my threads with your irrelevance. You already understand the points I'm making? Thats a good thing, not everyone who reads this forum does though.
Shall I cease posting until the godly m_dolens bequeaths a topic he doesn't know? Might be a lonely place around here if everyone does that.
You like to slag on me for contributing nothing to CPF, well fucker, I'm still waiting for your revolutionary poker thesis and I seriously think that until you do, you really should just SHUT THE FUCK UP.
2) I was well aware of what I was doing
3) BBC Z is an asshole... and he's proud of it. Nothing wrong with that. I think the only thing that's wrong with his posts is that he gives off a holier than though vibe... they're still funny as hell more often than not though.
Have yourself a great day sir.
/g2
P.s. I'll let your little un-Canadian spelling mistake slide, just this once
whoa man. what the hell is your problem? i didn't realize that me questioning that your post is "challenging our thinking" so much is such a big deal. wow man. perhaps you should take it down a notch. just a suggestion.
also, again, you might want to consider the irony of what you're saying here. just a thought.
lol yeah i even wrote it the canadian way and changed it. funny that you noticed lol.
My problem is you and your propensity to take pot-shots at me and then act like nothing happened. When I'm short with someone, its usually because I'm asking them to think for themselves. When you are short, you are just being an ass.
ah...you quoting me as questioning how you are "challenging our thinking". where was the pot-shot exactly?
Plus whatever the fuck else you have to say about me in other threads.
All you've got when yer on a forum is your words if you can't even stand by those, then I really don't understand why you are here.