Comments on a hand
This is not a bad beat story. I talked it over with a few people, How would you play it
7 handed 2-5 NL.
As a backround I play alot of limit, and not to much NL, but this hand confused me.
This hand is has 6 players, I am BB + 3. First two players call, I have 4,5 suited and call. Button calls and so do the blinds. Flop comes 10, 4, 5 rainbow. BB makes it $ 20, fold, fold, I call, button makes it 100.
The button is a very active and agressive player that has been pushing the table since the start of the game. He raises with medium pairs and two high cards.
I called. First question= Right or Wrong and why?
Thanks for your input.
7 handed 2-5 NL.
As a backround I play alot of limit, and not to much NL, but this hand confused me.
This hand is has 6 players, I am BB + 3. First two players call, I have 4,5 suited and call. Button calls and so do the blinds. Flop comes 10, 4, 5 rainbow. BB makes it $ 20, fold, fold, I call, button makes it 100.
The button is a very active and agressive player that has been pushing the table since the start of the game. He raises with medium pairs and two high cards.
I called. First question= Right or Wrong and why?
Thanks for your input.
Comments
Why is everyone advocating blowing the lag away on the flop? he's got a single pair AT or better.
Call the flop, check the turn and re-raise him all-in.
LAG != Stack-Off Calling Station
Semi-Agree, you will rarely see 104 or 105 here, possibly he has the same hand as you or some sort of str8 draw. An aggresive player on the button is probabbly going to be raising A10 and possibbly any 10 paint pre. Im leaning towards more of a str8 draw hand so I am going to call his raise and weak lead the turn of a non 8 or 3 to induce and call a jam. If he just calls behind i see what the river brings, if you think he will bluff a miss then check call.
Make him pay to see another card. Why let him hit his trips, etc. with a free card? The next two cards may scare him away if a flush or straight draw come by the river and he may not pay you off anyways.
Because he has the ability to fold. I think you people forget that even bad players know when they're beat.
The Hero read is that villian is a LAG. What do lags do wrong? They take weak hands and play them very aggressively. Why would you then not allow him to hang himself by exploiting his lag tendencies? Why do we suddenly want to conveniently convert him into a calling station?
Pre flop, I had $ 1900.00 to his $ 1200 - 1300. All other players had under $ 400.
as to your flop decision, if he is bluffing (or on a weak 1 pair hand), i would not expect him to put any more in the pot, unless he reads he can push you off a weak holding on a scare card. no sense giving him a free card to beat you, especially since you are so friggin deep. for this reason i would raise him on the flop. bottom 2 is a very precarious holding. yes, you could play it slow and have him bluff off more but you've got 240BBs at risk. if you are comfortable calling all the way to the river for 240BBs then my hat is off to you.
if he hit a set on the flop, would he raise big on a relatively dry board? i suppose he would if he thought he'd get callers then he should build a bigger pot. he can't be too afraid of someone drawing out on him though. (he's more likely to be playing 23 or 67 than the others in the hand.)
if he puts you on some weak ten, then the ace is a scare card.
hands you are behind on the flop: TT, 55, 44, T5, T4. (TT i discount as i expect he raises PF with this. there is only 1 combo of 55 and 1 of 44. T5 and T4 are the most likely candidates if you are beat AND there are less combos of this because of your holding - 6 of each).
hands he's (semi-)bluffing with on the flop: 66-99, 22, 33, A5, A4, A3, AT, KT, QT, JT, 76, 32 (any of these except the bigger cards are likely as he would have raised with these PF, possibly he would have raised with the PP too). i'm not going to give you a count but suffice it to say, way more than the hands he's beating you with. i'm guessing with this type of player, he raises fairly often PF with most of those ace combos, too, so i'm going to discount those a bit too.
so, if he is ahead on the turn, he was ahead already on the flop or the ace gave him a higher 2 pair or the wheel. so it comes down to reads. the only hand i realistically think he could have and be ahead is 32.
if you are confident you are ahead and/or willing to risk your stack, just jam here. if you just call, he's basically got a freeroll for about 800 bucks to outdraw you since you'll pretty much have to call the river too. if he doesn't outdraw you, he's not putting another dime in, unless he gets some crazy read that you would fold getting better than 2:1 on that call.
i expect you are ahead often enough to justify jamming the turn. if you get called you are almost always behind but i doubt you get called more than about 20%.
pardon? sometimes i have no idea what you mean. (okay, more than sometimes). why do bad players know when they're beat? not all of them do. in fact a lot don't and that's what makes them bad? also, who said this LAG was a bad player? did i miss that? or are just all LAGs bad players?
As played, if LAG's $100 raise knocked everyone else out and hero was now heads up, I'd come over the top all-in with a stack of $400 or less.
Going back one step, I raise the first $20 to $60 and see who is serious about this hand.
I understand why you guys don't win large amounts of money when you play poker. You make big hands and then get your opponents to fold immediately. You drag a small-medium sized pot and pat yourself on the back, not realizing that you let your villian off the hook.
You guys are like mortified if you ever get your money in ahead of a range but behind the actual hand and you pay the EV price for it.
I did'nt realize that you where both so deep. You are probabbly going to see a check or a jam on the river so then its decision time. If he misses his str8 that i still think he's on, you will probabbly see a jam considering the way he played the turn.
The rest of the story.
The river was a 2 completing a potential straight....no flush.
I checked and he pushed all in for $ 750 or so.
I hated to see the A on the turn. I have made too many hero calls in the past and been hurt by it. After a few min, I folded, despite the feeling I got from him that he was uncomfortable. I could not pull the trigger for $ 750.00
I agree that A 10 pref lop, he would have raised. I could not put him on that. I could see something like A,5 or A4 suited. A medium, small pair was not a likely holding as he would have raised pref lop. He got the $ 1500 in his stack from flopping or turning flushes with shit suited cards..
I don't hate my lay-down here, but wondered how some others would have played it.
I guess I am a nit. LOL
Oh and by the way, he showed me 10, 8 off....... I still don't hate the lay-down.