5/5nl poorly played hand
ok, let's walk through this one... one street at a time.
same loose aggressive game with the crazy asians. added to the mix is a shortstacker who just sat down in the last half hour or so and has bought in for 100 a couple of times.
i'm in the SB with around 1300. i have the table covered although a couple are around 1000.
guy i stacked with the 22 limps (see other post) UTG with about 600 behind, short-stacker pushes for 50 (he's done this a few times now with absolute garbage, hence the re-buys), both of the crazy asians call, one with 400 behind the other around 800. i look down at 55. i'm a bit pissed at the short stacker because of the way it impacts the game and want to bust him. i wouldn't mind getting some chips back from the crazy asians and the limping donk will probably pay off if i hit and he gets a piece. if i call, i expect him to call.
fold/call/re-raise? not sure a re-raise (short of a stupid push) will thin the field much and not sure i have implied odds for the call.
same loose aggressive game with the crazy asians. added to the mix is a shortstacker who just sat down in the last half hour or so and has bought in for 100 a couple of times.
i'm in the SB with around 1300. i have the table covered although a couple are around 1000.
guy i stacked with the 22 limps (see other post) UTG with about 600 behind, short-stacker pushes for 50 (he's done this a few times now with absolute garbage, hence the re-buys), both of the crazy asians call, one with 400 behind the other around 800. i look down at 55. i'm a bit pissed at the short stacker because of the way it impacts the game and want to bust him. i wouldn't mind getting some chips back from the crazy asians and the limping donk will probably pay off if i hit and he gets a piece. if i call, i expect him to call.
fold/call/re-raise? not sure a re-raise (short of a stupid push) will thin the field much and not sure i have implied odds for the call.
Comments
You have 55
You already have $5 in
The short stacker went all in for $50
It's $45 to call
There are 5 in the pot
Easy call.
flop comes 854 (sound familiar?) with 2 clubs. i check to the donk limper and he leads out for 75 into a 250 pot. asians fold (wtf?).
i'm feeling huge here but what kind of hand can i put him on? what hand do you limp with from EP, call a large raise (with huge implied odds i suppose) then lead out weakly? i was kinda thinking some kind of PP. i couldn't put him on 99+, as i think he would be more likely to have raised originally PF or re-raised to isolate the short stacker with all that dead money. so that brings me to 88 or lower. i suppose i could see the move with 66 or 77, giving him a gutshot. (76 is possible i suppose, more likely sooooooooooted. but it is a horrid call OOP. what else is new? but i'm thinking the guy tightened up a bit since i stacked him.)
the more i thought about it, the more i convinced myself he either has 88 or 44, with a small possibility for 77 or 66 or some kind of overpair. i had a real mental block at seeing any other hand there that made sense. do donks have to make sense? funny thing, as i pondered he figured i had some kind of hand and asked if i had 44 (alluding to the hand where i hit the quad deuces against him). he seemed so confident when he said this. this skewed me even more to thinking he could have 88, with smaller possibility of 44.
how ****ed up is my thinking here? any thoughts on how to procede?
+1.0000000000000001
btw, some great posts today. Your on fire! The only post missing is the story involving the hot asian chick
back to our story
i decided i was either hugely ahead or way behind on this. mainly due to the limp,big call PF and the fact he would bet into 2 live players on the flop. my previous 854 hand (the one i got blown out of with 54 against the same crazy asian) was also playing in my head. also, i thought any raise here, given the pot size would pretty much put him all-in and if he is playing a weak hand, he won't call given our previous history (me busting him badly). so i thought i'd just call here and see what happened on the turn. there should be about 400 in the pot now.
if you want to say i played this poorly, i have to agree. i'm very good at minimizing my losses and not so good at maximizing the gains. definitely an area i'm working on. hence the post. against a guy who has previously shown very poor play i gave him way too much credit for a potentially good hand along with the ability to lay down a marginal hand here.
turn comes 4s. 8544 on the board with 2 clubs and 2 spades. again he mentions the fact that if i'm playing 44 he is in big trouble. the 2 main hands i put him on are killing me now. agreed 44 is even less likely at this point but he is exuding confidence. he's got 350-400 left. weak lead/jam/CR/CF?
I hear you on this one; something I am also working on.
ok so it goes check, check. damn, now i'm sure i was way ahead!
river comes 8c. the board is 85448 with 3 clubs. 7c6c just got there big time. any 8 as well as the unlikely 44 wins.
if i am ahead, can i possibly extract any value? does he call with an overpair or flush? how about a 4?
what if i bet and he pushes for around 500? what if i check and he pushes? what if he bets 100-200?
man i hate how i played this hand. especially against this apparent fish. lol.
Great series of posts lately, btw. Please continue. More like the old days, before Sharf left. Way to much "You suck." "No, you suck bigger." "Well F U" lately.
Also you called to hit a set against dummies: you did. Quit over-thinking, if you aren't going to blindly shove there (flop) you're back to needing 20x stacks and should have folded preflop.
Edit: It really has been a great series of posts Greg, thanks for taking the time!
To the "the way it used to be" whiners...you suck!
on the river, i considered my options.
if i bet, he is raising with: 7c6c, any 8, possibly any 4, very unlikely to get a bluff raise from him calling with: any 4, any PP>44, A high (knowing him), likely 76 and prob folding everything else. if he raises, i'm beat a good 75% of the time and should likely fold.
if i check, he's betting: any 8, any 4, maybe any 2 clubs, 76, any PP>55 and a lot of other hands since i have shown weakness here. i beat all but 3 hands (any 8 being one hand lol).
i figured the odds were better to check, let him bet and i could put in a bit of a value raise which he is only calling with an 8 or a 4. but no, i check, he shows 7c2c for just about the weakest flush he could have here. nh buddy.
i made a bunch of mistakes with this hand.
pre-flop i think the call was marginal. without a big flop, i'm tossing my hand away OOP against the lags even though it could well be the best hand.
on the flop, i was focussed on making money back from the crazy asians. when the donk bet it, i assumed he made a rational play. why lead into the asians when you know they will bet their garbage? i figured he expected a raise to be coming his way. i put him on a big hand looking to mix it up with the lags. i missed the clue that his weak bet was a blocking bet, so he could try to draw out with his crap flush.
he was about 33% to win on the flop. knowing the cards, i expect he would have called any reasonable raise here and he had position on me. i strongly doubt he calling a shove here. likely something around 100 more (which may have been enough to commit him to the hand.)
the turn would have been a good spot to get a lot of chips in but i totally misread his hand. since he lead the flop, i expected him to bet again where i could put in a decent raise. when he checked, i missed my chance to get much value out of the hand.
on the river, i don't think i can get value here. i asked him later if he would have called anything in the neighbourhood of 100 on the river and he said 'definitely not'. ah well.
I probably lead out on that flop since we're fortunate to have the two 'crazy asians' with us. But if you're going to c/r I'd choose an amount that doesn't scream "hahaha...thanks for the c-bet sucka!!!"
thinking more about this, since there was already someone all-in, i doubt either of those crazy asians would bluff at a dry sidepot unless they had a good chance to outdraw the short stacker.
i missed the boat on this one, hence the post. thanks for the feedback.
edit: I wish we could have reaction videos as people view it.
that's even worse..what do you figure they are leading out to in a 250 pot? How are you getting like 250 more minimum into this pot
...and they obv fold junk when you c/r (esp you who will have a solid/tight image) but with that image a 'testing the waters' type bet 1/4-1/3 gets stomped on by a lot of marginal crap they could be holding...since they know you can and very often will fold.
edit: (I think it is obv by now that the actual play was to fold pf, but let's assume that you get that far)
When I was reading through this I was thinking that a club draw would be unlikely since he bet into a dry sidepot and would have to let his cards carry him for the main pot if everybody folded. It turns out that once again I've given a villain too much credit for thinking.