5-5NL Live Hand for discussion

Here is a hand from last nights game I was in...

Cut off has about 1100 in chips
SB has 300 in chips
BB(ME) I have about 650 in chips

I pick up AQoff in the BB.

Cut off makes it 30 bucks preflop. SB calls and I call. Now cutoff has been playing relatively tight but is known to make moves and push people off hands. My image is TAG as usual which peeves people off to know end but I am also known to make moves once in a while to keep myself interested in the game...lol.

Flop Ad 6c 7h....SB immediately bets out 40 bucks, I call and cut off calls. At this point I am thinking SB must have flopped two pair (high end) or A-rag (low end) just because he is well aware of my range and cut-off's range.

I call and cut off calls. Turn is Kc. SB checks (which officially surrenders his hand in my opinion), I fire out 65 bucks...now here is an interesting observation:

Cut off looks at his hand, then looks at the dealer and says "wow I am so sick" and proceeds to call the bet. SB calls as well.

River Qc....SB checks and I fire out 75 bucks....cut off immediately goes all in, has me covered.

So the board is Ad 6c 7h Kc Qc

SB folds and I sit there for a second and replay the hand in my head. I proceed to flip over my A to see a reaction and then flip over my Q a minute later to get a little bit more information. He gives me a jaw drop and I ask him the obvious question "so two pair no good" he doesn't respond.

The Q of clubs completes so many hands and because of the table talk on the turn I am really thinking he hit a back door flush with A-rag or some other holding.

So here is the pot information

90 preflop
120 flop
195 turn
river 75 + 440 for me to call

As always I come here for advice/information/critique....did I misplay my hand???

Comments

  • Its hard to get away from top two pair in this situation. A bigger bet on the flop may have given you more information (facing top two pair or trips on the flop already). Letting someone catch up with runner, runner flush or straight always sucks. A7c would be the hand I would put someone on. Trips on the flop or turn would likely come out with a re-raise.
  • Here is a hand from last nights game I was in...

    Cut off has about 1100 in chips
    SB has 300 in chips
    BB(ME) I have about 650 in chips

    I pick up AQoff in the BB.

    Cut off makes it 30 bucks preflop. SB calls and I call. Now cutoff has been playing relatively tight but is known to make moves and push people off hands. My image is TAG as usual which peeves people off to know end but I am also known to make moves once in a while to keep myself interested in the game...lol.

    Flop Ad 6c 7h....SB immediately bets out 40 bucks, I call and cut off calls. At this point I am thinking SB must have flopped two pair (high end) or A-rag (low end) just because he is well aware of my range and cut-off's range.

    I call and cut off calls. Turn is Kc. SB checks (which officially surrenders his hand in my opinion), I fire out 65 bucks...now here is an interesting observation:

    Cut off looks at his hand, then looks at the dealer and says "wow I am so sick" and proceeds to call the bet. SB calls as well.

    River Qc....SB checks and I fire out 75 bucks....cut off immediately goes all in, has me covered.

    So the board is Ad 6c 7h Kc Qc

    SB folds and I sit there for a second and replay the hand in my head. I proceed to flip over my A to see a reaction and then flip over my Q a minute later to get a little bit more information. He gives me a jaw drop and I ask him the obvious question "so two pair no good" he doesn't respond.

    The Q of clubs completes so many hands and because of the table talk on the turn I am really thinking he hit a back door flush with A-rag or some other holding.

    So here is the pot information

    90 preflop
    120 flop
    195 turn
    river 75 + 440 for me to call

    As always I come here for advice/information/critique....did I misplay my hand???

    Preflop Personally, I don't mind the call in the BB...BUT that is with the caveat that you are raising a lot of times in this spot as well. I can find folds there too, I'm not a big fan of playing AQ OOP, I think there are much better spots to make money in a typical 5/5 game than playing a raised pot in this spot. Here, I at least call given that the SB stuck his neck out there as well.

    I think you played too passively on the flop -- you are getting no info as to where you are at in the hand by not raising in that spot. You only have 1 pair, but IMO you have to see where you are at at this point or else you are lost for the rest of the hand. SB is making a weak bet of 40/90 which is either a feeler bet or a monster (or he is clueless?). I go for feeler bet and raise it to 120 or so (pot is 130 now) and see what happens...then you can decide how to play the rest of the hand. The flop play should help define your hand and give you some reads as to where the other players are in the hand. Just calling with a (fairly) big hand 3 handed vs a steal-position raise doesn't give you any info.

    Turn -- the pot is 230 not 195 (how did you get 195? insane rake?) -- you bet 65/230 -- that's not much of a bet unless you think you are crushing the other players and want them to come along cheaply. Why did you choose to bet so little? Their should be some reasoning behind the amount you chose -- as it stands it kinda seems like you didn't know where you were at (see flop play) and it was kind of a blocking bet, which isn't bad if you think it will work vs the cutoff.

    River -- Good blocking bet again (maybe) against a bad player(s) without a HUGE hand this will likely work. When both players call the turn I want to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. A decent player will pick you off in a large pot in this spot with air, but given that the backdoor flush came/the flop had a non club ace (and I assume you would have mentioned if you held the Aclubs) and that you bet out and the cutoff still has a player to act behind him who is now shortstacked (300-30-65 = 200 left) which makes him more likely to call...it's a tough call in that spot. Hmmmmm...I can't say what to do on the river without more play/read with/on the cutoff. Sorry. I think I'm completely lost on this river with you playing so passively on all other streets.

    I lean heavily torward fold without any more first-hand info on the cutoff.
  • GTA Poker wrote: »
    Preflop I can find folds there too, I'm not a big fan of playing AQ OOP, I think there are much better spots to make money in a typical 5/5 game than playing a raised pot in this spot.

    Turn -- the pot is 230 not 195 (how did you get 195? insane rake?) -- you bet 65/230 -- that's not much of a bet unless you think you are crushing the other players and want them to come along cheaply. Why did you choose to bet so little? Their should be some reasoning behind the amount you chose -- as it stands it kinda seems like you didn't know where you were at (see flop play) and it was kind of a blocking bet, which isn't bad if you think it will work vs the cutoff.

    Being mainly a 1/2 player, I would think a bet of $30 in a 5/5 game would be a standard call with AQ (even out of position)? That seems really tight.

    I agree, with the straight and flush draws on the turn, a pot size bet on the turn would definitely make a lot more sense (to hopefully get rid of the chasers). Hopefully.
  • I would probably reraise preflop but i dont think a call is terrible.

    Flop call is fine i think... unless you are playing complete donks raising just turns your hand into a bluff.

    Turn bet needs to be bigger

    As played river is a bet/fold i think... you can really only beat a bluff
  • GTA Poker wrote: »
    Preflop

    Turn -- the pot is 230 not 195 (how did you get 195? insane rake?) -- you bet 65/230 -- that's not much of a bet unless you think you are crushing the other players and want them to come along cheaply. Why did you choose to bet so little? Their should be some reasoning behind the amount you chose -- as it stands it kinda seems like you didn't know where you were at (see flop play) and it was kind of a blocking bet, which isn't bad if you think it will work vs the cutoff.

    I was calculating the money that went in on each street 3 x 65...is 195....sorry should have clarified.

    Thanks for your input guys, once again great information.

    Now a little bit of further information to why I did certain things.

    1. I knew my range preflop was probably either way ahead or equal to the cut off raise, the SB actually was a clueless player who I thought would complete with 2 pair but when he checked the turn I knew it was a weak holding.

    2. My bet on the turn was a blocking bet again. There are multiple draws out there now with the Kc and this game is a great calling station game where people won't fold their hand but at the same time the argument is always "bet him off his draw", well this time I took Harrington's advice and kept fold equity. (from his Cash Game 1 book...which I just finished)

    I do agree I should have bet more into the pot maybe 85-90 would have been suffice there...because I think with that bet and a cold call I can deduce his holding even further to confirm.

    The cutoff so far had only shown down AK, KK, AA...but with AA he limped in which leads me to believe he had a marginal holding on the flop (hence just the call) but the turn improved his hand....(maybe 10J or some sort of drawing club hand).

    Next time I see him I will ask him what he had...he wouldn't tell me that night but I did get a sense of surpise when I showed him AQ and eventually mucked it. The rest of the night actually we didn't tangle in any pots, he folded to all my raises. Which leads me to believe he thought I was a donk but when i turned out to be a semi-donk he decided to pick on weaker prey....LOL
  • I was calculating the money that went in on each street 3 x 65...is 195....sorry should have clarified.


    2. My bet on the turn was a blocking bet again. There are multiple draws out there now with the Kc and this game is a great calling station game where people won't fold their hand but at the same time the argument is always "bet him off his draw", well this time I took Harrington's advice and kept fold equity. (from his Cash Game 1 book...which I just finished)

    I do agree I should have bet more into the pot maybe 85-90 would have been suffice there...because I think with that bet and a cold call I can deduce his holding even further to confirm.

    I'm not sure what you mean here? Was it a blocking bet or was it supposed to be a bet to get people of of draws?
  • GTA Poker wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you mean here? Was it a blocking bet or was it supposed to be a bet to get people of of draws?

    It was a blocking bet because I don't like check calling with the Kc comes plus I was looking to take control of the hand after the original raiser just called the flop instead of giving it a push....

    In this game I was not getting anyone off of their draws just because of the nature of the game. So whether I bet 30 or 300 it still induces a call. Its a weak tight play I know on my part but I believe I have +ev in this game so I don't need to try to get my money in with still 1 or 2 cards to come unless I have a set or better.

    In most 5/5 games I play in Toronto I find I can easily check call with a tighter range than most players then block bet the turn to prevent a huge bet on the turn. I like to control the pot size doing that. Then usually I can fire out another barrel on the river and take it down.

    Once again this only works with a TAG image and with players with wide ranges. Guys with tighter ranges like myself will not fall for a block bet on the turn and will re-raise you to see where I am at....
  • Ok, thanks for the clarification. Initially it sounded like you thought you'd prevent draws with this bet
  • Only read the OP so far...but IMO you played this hand a bit too passively on all streets.

    AQ is a great hand, but I'm not sure I really want to play this out of position and not be the agressor, especially with SB stuck in the middle. I might lean towards re-raising preflop in this spot, but a call isn't too bad...I can see a fold too but that seems too tight. I would playing this hand regardless.

    As far as flop goes, I really don't know if just calling really gave you any additional info regarding the possible hands the two villains might have. I might lean towards raising to knock out the original raiser to play in position against the SB, and to define your hand against the SB's possible ranges. Anyways, as played, if you were going to lead the turn, I would probably increae the size of the bet a bit...2/3 to 3/4 the pot def sounds better than 1/3...you're making it too cheap for players to outdraw you if you are ahead, and a strong player might read your bet as weak/blocking bet and put you to a tough decision

    River...I don't know if I can say I can fold. Again, your bet of $75 screams either weak/blocker bet, or pay-me-off. The way the hand was played out (flat flop, lead weak turn, lead weak river) made it seem like a blocker bet as it was played in a very weak and passive manner, so if the players involved were strong players, you might be raised off your hand. I might check/call this river, and possible let a worst hand bet into you, and still get some showdown value with 2p against other hands that youo beat. At the same time you won't lose as much when you are behind.

    Not sure if I can really fold this hand personally, but I think its a spot where you can find a fold....I might just end up spew calling and reach in for a rebuy...
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