Rebuy Situation; WWYD
I don't normally play in rebuy games, just not my preferred game, but I do occasionally join in a regular home rebuy once in awhile. Last night, this situation came up and I'm abit torn about it.
Just busted out second last hand of the rebuy period, so I rebuy, thinking one more hand, I'll do the addon and give me a few chips for post rebuy play. Last hand, I've got 2500 from rebuying, blinds are 100/200.
UTG+1 pushes all in for 1950. I'm next to act with 8 players behind me, a few with decent stacks, one monster in LP. I look down to see AQo. If I call and lose, I'm down to about 2500 in chips after the addon. Blinds will be 150/300 after the break. Must have zero to rebuy again. UTG+1 I've played against quite abit, and know him to be solid but also to take risks when he thinks he can make it pay off.
Dilemma is that if I lose the hand, I'm virtually in horrid stack shape after the break with only 2500, where if I fold and addon, I'm still over the 10bb range, but still having a lot of ground to cover (addon is 2000). With 8 players to act behind me, I was afraid of giving big stacks odds to call as well.
What would you do in this situation, and why? Like I said, I don't normally play rebuys, and not sure what the right move would have been.
Just busted out second last hand of the rebuy period, so I rebuy, thinking one more hand, I'll do the addon and give me a few chips for post rebuy play. Last hand, I've got 2500 from rebuying, blinds are 100/200.
UTG+1 pushes all in for 1950. I'm next to act with 8 players behind me, a few with decent stacks, one monster in LP. I look down to see AQo. If I call and lose, I'm down to about 2500 in chips after the addon. Blinds will be 150/300 after the break. Must have zero to rebuy again. UTG+1 I've played against quite abit, and know him to be solid but also to take risks when he thinks he can make it pay off.
Dilemma is that if I lose the hand, I'm virtually in horrid stack shape after the break with only 2500, where if I fold and addon, I'm still over the 10bb range, but still having a lot of ground to cover (addon is 2000). With 8 players to act behind me, I was afraid of giving big stacks odds to call as well.
What would you do in this situation, and why? Like I said, I don't normally play rebuys, and not sure what the right move would have been.
Comments
I am a relatively tight player but I understand that 3900 chips > 1950 chips (if I double through) and 2500 chips > 1950 chips.
However given your position, and the fact that you cant rebuy, close your eyes, fold, and pretend like it never happened.
but given your situation, push. you'll need a hell of a lot more chips than you have if you want to avoid the push or fold decision so early in the freeze out portion. if you bust, go home. (this is what i would have done before your current rebuy.) if you win it, you may have a slight chance with the add-on.
If you double through (and get the addon) you will have a workable stack.
Call (hopfully one of the big stacks will call/reraise)
Then get all your chips in on the flop if the big stack is in.
Time to gamble.....
Calling and losing would have left you with 550, + the addon brings you to 2050. Folding and taking the addon brings you to 4000.
I would fold.
But that's just me. And since female players need to grow some balls, my advice might not be valid.
This situation is basically your tournament life. If you win you will have a decent stack to compete with the big stacks. If you lose you will be crippled and be the short stack with about 2K in chips (if you take the add-on) with the blinds being 150-300.
If the player has a pocket pair you are risking most of your chips on a coin flip situation, against two random cards that doesn’t have an Ace or Queen it is about 60/40.
Plus the situation you presented is wrong.
There were two limpers and the player on the cut-off pushed. You were on the button. The limpers all had you covered as you just had re-bought and this is the last hand for re-buys.
Chances were if you called or pushed behind none of the big stacks or limpers would call behind to risk most of their stack
LOL - I wondered if you'd see that.
I love the correction
It's good you haven't played me in a year....I've sucked the wook for about the past 7 months, so your assessment would probably have been "ball-less" anyway.
here's where the problems started. sucks that you busted out right at the end of the rebuy. i guess if you have the money and you don't care about losing, then rebuy and hope to push with whatever cards you get on the next hand. you got AQo, so push it and pray.
personally, i would not have used another rebuy in this situation because even with the one rebuy and the addon (assuming you just fold the last hand), you are still left with not much to play with in comparison to the blinds. my assessment is bad timing to bust, not enough rebuy time left, just walk away.
I think El was dealer in that hand. Not that it matters much. I think you're right though in saying none of the other limpers were going to call...just that it was the very next hand after rebuying. If it were anyone else, I just might have called it too.
I have given some thought to what Greg and m_dolens have said about the timing of my rebuy. Never gave it much thought in the past, but it does make sense to NOT take the rebuy so late in the rebuy period. With the blinds going up, even if I had won that pot and taken the addon, I was still against some huge stacks and not much time to double up. Next time I play a rebuy, I'll have to consider both the blinds and time remaining before deciding to re invest.
I remember because I looked at what the flop would have been - and I think that's colouring your thinking a bit AJ....knowing that you would have hit two pair.
I still think it was a good fold.
I also disagree with the thinking that's been expressed about not rebuying close to the end of the rebuy period. Your rebuy + addon was more than 10x the BB, and most games (and this game especially) always tighten up after the rebuy period. Granted, if the rebuy + addon gives you absolutely no play, then yeah....I'd walk away too. But in this case, I think you would have been ok.
I finished the rebuy period at only 2100 chips, with the addon, I was up to 3600...and I still finished 5th (and that's only because I raised light into pocket Kings. Ooops!)
I think many people go into panick mode as soon as they hit 10xBB (or close to it). Many, many games are much more passive than you think, and you can nurse a stack by winning a few small pots until you hit a big pot.
if you have 10BB or less and most of your opponents have 50, 100 or even more BB, you are at a huge disadvantage. you are in push or fold mode but your big-stacked opponents will be raising lightly in front (and feel committed to your small raise) or calling lightly behind. the chances of you stealing the blinds are very small and the odds of you hitting a monster before your stack is miniscule are also small. chances are you pick a decent hand to go with and you are only a slight favourite, assuming only 1 caller. meh, that doesn't give you much chance to show your mad skilz.
now, if your opponents only have less than 30BB, then nevermind...
p.s. if i am reading between the lines correctly, congrats and best wishes with the upcoming addition.
To OP, I would approach this hand like I already had the addon but it's just not in my stack yet. Pretend the rebuy period is over and you are simply in the middle of a tournament with a stack of 4500 and the blinds are going to go up to 150/300 next hand (well you do have to consider that everyone's stack could go up 2000 after this hand).
So I say just play poker. Play regular tournament strategy for the hand. In other words, what would you do if this was the middle of a freezeout? Although playing poker here is also using the rebuy/addon strategy to range his hand and how others are going to play this hand.
This was a one table live re-buy game. At most the biggest stacks had about at the 150-300 level 50BB (7000 to 9000) and the avg. stack was around the 20 BB (6000) range including the add-ons.
I think you are thinking about a large field in on-line game or big tournament here which it was not.
AJ how did you go broke with before to re-buy and how much did you have at that point because the reason you pushed was (most likely) to re-buy to have a full stack after the re-buy period. If that was the case then this is an automatic fold, because you re-bought to have a full stack at the end of the re-buy period and now are risking it.
i don't get what you are trying to say here. it's like you're suggesting to play a rebuy like it's a freezeout (in this specific scenario)? or you're saying to play a rebuy like the rebuy time is over when it isn't (in this specific scenario)? i do not get the rationale behind this thinking.
Exactly why I pushed with garbage. I was severally short stacked (less then 4 BB I think at the time) after folding on the turn the hand before. I thought I would risk it on the hand because if memory serves, there were like 6 or 7 limpers, and I thought I could either a)getting incredibly lucky and hit, or b) bust out, rebuy+addon and start the next level with a much better stack.
I think El nailed it saying if I didn't rabbit the flop after folding, I wouldn't question my decision. AQo was the best hand I got that night, and it was a real bitch to fold it, but overall I think it was the right idea. Just when the flop would have been AQx...well, I thought maybe I made a grave judgement error.
You're NOT going to tell me what you had, are you? 10's?
I told you, that you were coin flipping. So I had a pocket pair smaller then Queens.
If you pushed rags to re-buy then you should not call here.
My point is that since he won't be able to rebuy if you lose the hand, then don't worry about it. Also since he is going to addon, then consider that as well. So effectively, he can consider his "tournament position" right now in this hand as having 4500 chips and blinds of 150/300 (other than the fact that he can't reraise to 4500 right now). In other words, he can look at this from a freezeout tournament perspective. I did though mention that the pusher's range still had rebuy implications in it (i.e. probably wider).
I don't know, it seemed clear to me when I wrote, maybe not.
I think the point here is the stack sizes of the other players...which Chris pointed out in his post, so I won't bother regurgitating. I think what it boils down to (as do most situations in poker) is...it depends.
I don't think AQ is an auto-call or an auto-fold....it depends on a lot of factors. Based on the factors I knew about this game, I think AJ made a good fold. I also wouldn't have neccessarily pushed in Chris' position, but that's another discussion.
As an aside, I'm also starting to question the 10xBB 'cut off' for push or fold territory. It's like a switch goes off in some players heads when it gets to that point, and they become robots, not taking into consideration other factors that could impact thier decisions. Against the right opponents someone with 10xBB could make a raise that isn't all-in....and in other situations, 15xBB is push or fold.
Thanks for the best wishes
my comments to AJ were more related to a bigger rebuy tourney as i wasn't aware of the other stack sizes. i still HATE putting more money in if i know i'm gonna be short-stacked anyway...
at 10BB i am looking for chance to steal the blinds by pushing. i would never consider a raise of anything less than all-in at that point. many, many times, i do not get a chance to make that steal - big stacks raising in front of me, aggressive defender in the blinds and i have 42o, etc but i'm looking for a chance with every hand. at 5BB it gets pretty critical. again i don't just push blindly though. a couple of times, i haven't had a chance to push until i get down to 2BB and somehow amazingly, i've come back for the win (see my avatar...)
at 15BB, pushing to steal is overkill from the risk vs reward perspective. 15-20BB is a good stack for re-stealing against a loose raiser.