Flush on paired board

InsaneGuyInsaneGuy
in MTT Strategy
Live MTT

Blinds are 300/600

Hero stack : 9900
Vilain : 10000

Dealt to hero : Q8d
I limp in the cutoff with 2 limpers + 2 blinds.

Flop is Kd9c3d

SB bets 600
I call everyone else folds

Turn is 9d

SB bets 600
I make it 2000 more
He reraise 5000 more.


Is that an auto-fold?

Comments

  • JohnithJohnith
    Well in my opinion the paired board makes it better for you to make the call. When i get a flush i want my opponent to make 2 pair or hey even better a triple! since the pot was limped into before the flop im pretty sure you can assume that the other guy doesnt have pocket kings (so there goes 1 FH to worry about). Of coarse he could have pocket 9's or 3's but id highly doubt it.. Im pretty sure for this situation your opponent was holding something like A 9..but then u gotta watch for a higher flush.. i dono its a tough call but i would probably make it.
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    Johnith wrote: »
    Well in my opinion the paired board makes it better for you to make the call. When i get a flush i want my opponent to make 2 pair or hey even better a triple! since the pot was limped into before the flop im pretty sure you can assume that the other guy doesnt have pocket kings (so there goes 1 FH to worry about). Of coarse he could have pocket 9's or 3's but id highly doubt it.. Im pretty sure for this situation your opponent was holding something like A 9..but then u gotta watch for a higher flush.. i dono its a tough call but i would probably make it.
    Uhhh, K,9 or 9,3 in the small blind that just got there. I don't think he bets any naked 9 from the small blind out of position on that flop. Then re-raise you on the turn with a flushed and paired board without the FH. Unlikely unless on str8 steal. I probably would have just called his original bet and perhaps called the river depending on bet, stack sizes, etc. 9d looks like his gin card, makes you tye flush and him the FH..h
  • westside8westside8
    InsaneGuy wrote: »
    Live MTT

    Blinds are 300/600

    Hero stack : 9900
    Vilain : 10000

    Dealt to hero : Q8d
    I limp in the cutoff with 2 limpers + 2 blinds.

    Flop is Kd9c3d

    SB bets 600
    I call everyone else folds

    Turn is 9d

    SB bets 600
    I make it 2000 more
    He reraise 5000 more.


    Is that an auto-fold?

    No. Barring any reads I think I go broke here...you can't play with monsters-under-the-bed syndrome.
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    westside8 wrote: »
    No. Barring any reads I think I go broke here...you can't play with monsters-under-the-bed syndrome.
    What would you put the SB on then? That you could beat that is. K,3? Naked 9 or K?
    I don't think this is the "monsters-under-the-bed syndrome" type of situation. I could see a complete bluff, but without a read on the guy I would tend to believe the re-raise especially in a tournament.
  • JimmyHoJimmyHo
    You can second guess what the other guy has, all you want. If you are talking in general terms, I would call, no issue. if you fold your [almost] nut flush every time the board pairs, it is not winning poker. If the other player has a better flush, such is life. If he happened to hit a full house (or slow played quads), again its life.
  • InsaneGuyInsaneGuy
    I re-raised all in with pretty much the same thoughts as you guys ...

    He had 93o for the full house (which he was really proud of showing lol)

    Thks for the input, knew I made the right play in the situation not going to face someone who calls his SB with 93 that often...!
  • JimmyHoJimmyHo
    InsaneGuy wrote: »
    not going to face someone who calls his SB with 93 that often...!

    in the SB with that many callers, any two cards are worth a call. Just bad luck. SB special :)
  • g2g2
    If you're gonna play Q8s in late position, why not raise? Limping here is terrible.

    /g2
  • Hellmuth's MoleHellmuth's Mole
    g2 wrote: »
    If you're gonna play Q8s in late position, why not raise? Limping here is terrible.

    /g2

    +1

    Unless you commit to the hand and get rid of some riff raff preflop you have to give more credit to a big raise from the limpers.
  • InsaneGuyInsaneGuy
    What's better there, fold PF or raise PF ?
  • g2g2
    InsaneGuy wrote: »
    What's better there, fold PF or raise PF ?
    Depends. If the table is playing passive[1] I'd steal in late position with any two. At 300/600 the blinds are definitely worth stealing. If the limpers have been limp-calling a lot, it's definitely a fold.

    /g2

    [1] passive - meaning the limpers will fold to a raise and the blinds won't defend without a hand
  • JimmyHoJimmyHo
    g2 wrote: »
    If you're gonna play Q8s in late position, why not raise? Limping here is terrible.

    /g2

    Come on, who doesn't limp once in a while :)
  • g2g2
    pokerJAH wrote: »
    Come on, who doesn't limp once in a while :)
    I didn't say there was anything wrong with limping sometimes. Just here its a leak.

    /g2
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    g2 wrote: »
    I didn't say there was anything wrong with limping sometimes. Just here its a leak.

    /g2
    QFT, if you are going to limp and let the blinds in cheap, (9,3) wasn't that one of the hands I mentioned, then you have to be able to lay down to strong resistance. That's a leak for sure in a tournament. May as well just hand the SB the chips...
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    m=10ish, fold or push with limpers in front -- I fold there without reads
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    pokerJAH wrote: »
    You can second guess what the other guy has, all you want. If you are talking in general terms, I would call, no issue. if you fold your [almost] nut flush every time the board pairs, it is not winning poker. If the other player has a better flush, such is life. If he happened to hit a full house (or slow played quads), again its life.
    I beg your pardon, I think it is winning poker... He let the blinds in cheap, they can have anything, he did nothing other than raise on the river, when he was re-raised that tells me FH, especially from one of the blinds... Now if he had raised preflop to define I can understand not worrying about 9,3. In the small blind I almost always will complete with any 2 cards, especially with 3 or 4 limpers.
  • ChuckielandChuckieland
    InsaneGuy wrote: »
    Live MTT

    Blinds are 300/600 but how far to the money?

    Hero stack : 9900 (M11)
    Vilain : 10000

    Dealt to hero : Q8d Fold here #1 or Raise #2, call is really bad choice
    I limp in the cutoff with 2 limpers + 2 blinds.

    Flop is Kd9c3d

    SB bets 600 what did you put him on? mini bet usually air, draw, monster, YOU need to raise with with you flush draw, hope he folds. if he push all-in. only call with good pot odds, unless it is close to bubble.
    I call everyone else folds

    Turn is 9d

    SB bets 600 Mini bet again
    I make it 2000 more should of done this at the flop
    He reraise 5000 more. he who mini bet and reraise you show alot of strenght, he is very strong here.


    Is that an auto-fold?
    not an auto fold, but when you reraise all-in. that's pretty bad play IMO
    if he has trips, he is worry about flush, and may do a raise and fold to a push thing. thurs why lose him by push allin?
    if he has a boat, you are drawing dead.
    so why push here?
    if he has a flush you can beat, he is probly not going to like his hand now. why lose him with a push?
    for that turn play, If i didn't raise the flop, i won't raise the turn. I would call, and make my decision on the river. by getting value in. probly call a small raise from villian.
    I would not want to play an all-in pot.
    You need to learn pot control.
  • JimmyHoJimmyHo
    compuease wrote: »
    I beg your pardon, I think it is winning poker... He let the blinds in cheap, they can have anything, he did nothing other than raise on the river.


    Read the post again, raise was on the turn. We have not seen the river yet. Folding the second best flush is questionable.
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    Question it all you like, raise on the turn that paired the board is even more of a tell, screams made hand, and not a smaller flush either... Play winning poker, either raise pre-flop in position or be prepared to fold to strong resistance later. This is really the most basic of tournament poker.
  • ReefAquariumReefAquarium
    Preflop:

    Suited 3 gap Q8d in the CO after 2 lmpers:

    Fold preflop 95% of the time.
    Raise it up 5% of the time.
    Call aprox. ... .0000001% of the time.

    Turn:

    Minraise-Pot commit reraise == He has a hand on the turn.

    Would he bet a worse flush or a AXd draw here like that? Nope.

    Your 2nd nut flush is a bluff catcher.

    Easy fold unless you get some read on him that he's bluffing.
  • goodwootergoodwooter
    he could have limped with king nine or ace rag of diamonds..could have limped with 33...really doubt he has Kk...you have the second nut flush against a paired board...you cant play scared poker...at some point you have to make a move...calling is not an option...its all in or fold, both are probably correct
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