QQ

The_AwesomeThe_Awesome
in MTT Strategy
I am a little torn on this one. I was having a hard time deciding on which way to play this situation.

-30 person live $50 NLHE tourney, about 1/4 of the way into it
-I share the chip lead at my table with about 6500
-QQ mid position
-UTG is super tight, hasn't won a hand yet all night
-UTG limps in for 100
-a few folds
-I raise 300 on top
-small blind raises it to 1200 (he is the other chip leader at the table)
-UTG goes all in for about 1600 total

Now I think there's a real good chance UTG has me beat with KK or AA, I'd say like 80% or so. I have played him many times and I am pretty sure about this. 20% he has AK suited and it's a race.

I am not sure what SB has. I have seen him play AK and mid pairs very aggressively. I get the feeling from his reactions that he will call my all in if I go over the top but given how I had seen him play I can expect him to do this with a fairly wide range of hands. It would be hard to put him on just AA or KK or AK.

So figuring if you go all in he will call what is your move?

1) Push all in. If you win the pot with SB you will win a 10,000 pot. If you can grab the pot that UTG has it will be a 15,000 pot. For me that is enough chips to get myself in the money at this tournament.

2) Fold. You are only in the pot for 400. You know UTG has you beat and you are unable to see where you stand against SB. You have enough chips to find a better fight later.

3) Call. See the flop and play from there.


I tend to usually opt for 2) here. But I also tend to consistantly get to the final table but usually with few chips. I have been pressuring myself to find opportunities worth taking earlier to grab enough chips to get to the money or go home early. But of couse only to some extent, there is a balance in there.

What would you do and why?

Comments

  • WaterLooserWaterLooser
    I'd probably re-shove, strap in and go for a ride. Gotta play for first! However, I usually never have a read that is 80% accurate. You sound pretty sure about the AA, KK UTG.

    I would probably fold JJ- here, but with QQ, if they both have AK, or even AK & AQ/AJ/AT they already have each others outs covered which increases your odds and you are in really good shape. If they both have AK, you are just over 60% to win the entire pot. Also just winning the side pot would be fine, even if you lose the 1600 to UTG.

    Maybe someone could stove some of the other combos (like the SB having a smaller pocket pair, etc).
  • cadillaccadillac
    I don't see UTG Limp/shoving over and 3 bet with anything that you beat.


    I think you can fold your QQ here and feel good about it.
  • The_AwesomeThe_Awesome
    Well he's a good tight player. He's been bitching about his hands all night but consistently folding the crap where he should. He's been blead down to half his starting chips. He's also very position aware.

    When he initially limped from UTG my radar went off. 100 chips of 1600 with a mediocre hand just hoping no one raises on the way around is not his game. I made a standard raise waiting to see what he would do. When SB raised it up again UTG lit up like it was Christmas morning. He quickly and confidently went all in. I have a pretty good eye for finding big pockets out there and I was quite certain that's what he had. He would not do that with JJ. I can't put him on QQ since I have two. So that leaves me in a lot of trouble. The only other hand I can put him on possibly is AK suited but given his style he would not be so confident about it. I could tell he couldn't beleive his luck to finally get a hand and to get full out action on it too. That's why I was quite certain he had AA or KK. This was a real strong read.
  • WaterLooserWaterLooser
    The_Awesome wrote: »
    I could tell he couldn't beleive his luck to finally get a hand and to get full out action on it too. That's why I was quite certain he had AA or KK. This was a real strong read.
    The_Awesome wrote:
    I get the feeling from his reactions that he will call my all in if I go over the top but given how I had seen him play I can expect him to do this with a fairly wide range of hands.

    I probably still push, looking for the call behind to win a massive side pot. If the AA/KK read is good and the feeling of a call behind here is strong, then you have the SB down to 4 outs (or less if he has something like AQ/AJ or a smaller pp).
  • WaterLooserWaterLooser
    cadillac wrote: »
    I don't see UTG Limp/shoving over and 3 bet with anything that you beat.


    I think you can fold your QQ here and feel good about it.


    Take out the strong reads on a player you know well, what would you do here in an online SnG in the $10-$20 range?
  • m_dolensm_dolens
    i'd probably fold here. btw what is your image to the rest of the table? are you playing loose and your preflop raise isn't scaring anyone? i personally tend to play decently tight, so if i was in that position i'd be folding my QQ to a raise followed by an all in push, especially at this point in the tournament. i totally agree on playing for first (since my understanding is that 2nd place is just 1st loser), but like you said, it's only 1/4 of the way through and no need to risk your tournament life here. fold and wait for a better opportunity imho.
  • cadillaccadillac
    WaterLooser wrote: »
    Take out the strong reads on a player you know well, what would you do here in an online SnG in the $10-$20 range?

    FOLD
  • The_AwesomeThe_Awesome
    My table image would be fairly tight. The table is also playing fairly tight preflop... very few reraises preflop and maybe a 1/3rd of the time it will go around without a raise.
  • ReefAquariumReefAquarium
    The_Awesome wrote: »
    I am a little torn on this one. I was having a hard time deciding on which way to play this situation.

    -30 person live $50 NLHE tourney, about 1/4 of the way into it
    -I share the chip lead at my table with about 6500
    -QQ mid position
    -UTG is super tight, hasn't won a hand yet all night
    -UTG limps in for 100
    -a few folds
    -I raise 300 on top
    -small blind raises it to 1200 (he is the other chip leader at the table)
    -UTG goes all in for about 1600 total

    Now I think there's a real good chance UTG has me beat with KK or AA, I'd say like 80% or so. I have played him many times and I am pretty sure about this. 20% he has AK suited and it's a race.

    I am not sure what SB has. I have seen him play AK and mid pairs very aggressively. I get the feeling from his reactions that he will call my all in if I go over the top but given how I had seen him play I can expect him to do this with a fairly wide range of hands. It would be hard to put him on just AA or KK or AK.

    So figuring if you go all in he will call what is your move?

    1) Push all in. If you win the pot with SB you will win a 10,000 pot. If you can grab the pot that UTG has it will be a 15,000 pot. For me that is enough chips to get myself in the money at this tournament.

    2) Fold. You are only in the pot for 400. You know UTG has you beat and you are unable to see where you stand against SB. You have enough chips to find a better fight later.

    3) Call. See the flop and play from there.


    I tend to usually opt for 2) here. But I also tend to consistantly get to the final table but usually with few chips. I have been pressuring myself to find opportunities worth taking earlier to grab enough chips to get to the money or go home early. But of couse only to some extent, there is a balance in there.

    What would you do and why?

    So there's 2 pots , You're putting 1600 into the main and 4900 into the side.

    You probably have about 1/4 equity in the main pot.
    For the side pot what range do you put the sb on? vs AK you're a bit better than even. Will he have less than QQ often enough to make up the equity you lose calling the UTG?

    Your OP seems to imply that he'll play mid pairs aggressively but I can't see anyone calling with 88-TT here.
    Is the sb a total moron that he would make the call with 88-TT often enough to make up for the equity you lose calling the main pot?

    You say you think he will call....
    Have you ever seen him call a 4th raise with JJ or less????
  • The_AwesomeThe_Awesome
    Well my read is that he would call with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ and might call with 10,10, AJs, A10s. I figured he was calling because when he gets a decent hand he gets over confident with it. TO be honest though it was my first time playing him. He seemed quite honest about how he thought about his hands but I couldn't fully gauge whether he valued them correctly or not. I got the impression that he over valued some hands from his earlier plays with mid pairs.

    Not to mention I had already put UTG on AA or KK. It's awefully difficult to put another player on one of those two hands on top of that. Of course that is my fear here though.

    So part of me wanted to put both of them on AA or KK... but man that's hard to do. So there's 2 hands SB could have that put me in a lot of trouble and 3 others I'm sure he'd follow me in with plus a couple more he might. Then consider that some of his outs are likely sitting in my and/or UTGs hands.
  • The_AwesomeThe_Awesome
    I can see both sides of the coin here. I sat there saying to myself this is going to be my best fold of the night or my best push of the night. That hand gets me enough chips and time to get in the money or it breaks me.

    I pushed. I think I am still comfortable with either decision 1) or 2).

    UTG turned over pocket rockets and SB turned over pocket cowboys.

    Doesn't happen too often but sometimes the stars just line up and you see the top three pairs battle it out.

    I didn't get any help either. The Aces held up for the first pot as did the kings for the side pot.
  • InsaneGuyInsaneGuy
    That's brutal ... QQ,KK and AA on the same hand ... whew.
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