AK suited, raise, re-raise in front

BigChrisElBigChrisEl
in No Limit / Pot Limit Holdem
$24 + 2 Token SnG. Top 5 get $75 token, 6th get $57. 8 players left.

derryland has been very loose but aggressive. He pushed all-in for 1500 with Ad-Qd at the 25-50 when a player UTG made it 150.

He also opened raised in mid-position to 800 at the 50-100 level with pocket Jacks.

No much is known about Econometrics as we just merged to the final table a few hands earlier and lost a player just after the merge. He was on the other table until the merge.

Full Tilt Poker Game #5485425578: Tier Two $24+$2 Sit & Go (41738166), Table 2 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em

Seat 1: derryland (3,715)
Seat 2: brOmstar (1,280)
Seat 4: adgate (1,180)
Seat 5: BigChrisEl (6,685)
Seat 6: mikedill (5,915)
Seat 7: Schmabber (1,710)
Seat 8: Econometrics (3,480)
Seat 9: tagx (3,035)

mikedill posts the small blind of 120


Schmabber posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #5

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to BigChrisEl [Ks As]

Econometrics raises to 650

tagx folds

derryland raises to 3,600

brOmstar folds
adgate folds


AK suited, raise, re-raise in front, derryland has 115 back so he is not folding. What do you do?

Comments

  • HobbesHobbes
    Easy fold.
    It's a satty and all about survival.
    Let the others fight it out.
    No need here to dump 1/2 your stack on at best a race.
  • FaroughFarough
    Folding is probably the best bet here. No need to try and make the moves when you don't really need to with the stack that you have.
  • GrahamGraham
    Since you have nothing invested in the hand a fold is probably the best bet as Hobbes said (no point in wasting half of your stack on what is most likely a coin toss). Decent raise UTG, followed by an aggressive reraise says that one of the players prob. has a better hand so you will most likely be going into the hand a slight underdog (though you did say the one player had been playing a little aggressive).

    I'd probably wait for a better situation to shove though.
  • westside8westside8
    Satellite situation...fold
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    You move all-in because you are only putting 50% of your stack on the line. You know the all-in by derryland is loose and your push will likely make ergo fold. That puts yourself in a 50% race against a hand you may already have dominated.

    Folding is terrible. You have the big stack. Use it.

    Edit:

    Blah it's a sat.

    You can fold, just steal the blinds from the mid-stacks and yer fine.

    Edit #2:

    It's even more optimal for you to fold when the two midstacks want to battle. The result will be another player on life support regardless who wins.
  • BigChrisElBigChrisEl
    I folded of course.

    Every one else folded as well and the villain showed pocket Jacks.
  • FaroughFarough
    BigChrisEl wrote: »
    I folded of course.

    Every one else folded as well and the villain showed pocket Jacks.

    Yeah, it was a good fold. With 3 peopel under 2,000 chips and you being the chip leader at the time with only 3 needing to get out to get the top prize it was the right play.
  • ReefAquariumReefAquarium
    Here I fold everything except AA or KK.

    Anyone play with QQ here?
  • BigChrisElBigChrisEl
    I think I may have tossed Queens here.

    What if it was top 3 that paid, then do you call?
  • FaroughFarough
    I'd play QQ here, because if he had Aces or Kings he wouldn't have put that big of a raise in there. The best situation you could have is lower pocket pair, or 1 over card to your pockets. Even if they have 2 overs then it's still a coinflip.
  • westside8westside8
    Farough wrote: »
    I'd play QQ here, because if he had Aces or Kings he wouldn't have put that big of a raise in there. The best situation you could have is lower pocket pair, or 1 over card to your pockets. Even if they have 2 overs then it's still a coinflip.

    Its unnecessary in this situation to get your chips in there based on the payout structure for a coinflip, or even risk losing a 75/25 against someone who might have like AQ/AJ or what not.
  • waltsfriendwaltsfriend
    BigChrisEl wrote: »
    derryland has been very loose but aggressive. He pushed all-in for 1500 with Ad-Qd at the 25-50 when a player UTG made it 150.

    He also opened raised in mid-position to 800 at the 50-100 level with pocket Jacks.

    Just out of curiosity, is this everyone's definition of "loose but aggressive". I don't consider either of these hand choices loose, but clearly the betting is wacky.
  • BigChrisElBigChrisEl
    waltsfriend wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, is this everyone's definition of "loose but aggressive". I don't consider either of these hand choices loose, but clearly the betting is wacky.


    Well those hands were some that came to mind. He pushed 2000 at the 50-100 level in the SB when it was folded to him with 10d-6d and got instantly called by the BB with A-Q.

    I also saw him called an UTG 3xBB raises from player with hands like K8 suited, and Q-9 off from mid-position.

    I generally consider people loose when they call or raise hands I would fold.
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    Pretty sure KK is a fold here, AA is probably a call since you're still in decent shape if you lose.
  • stpboystpboy
    I fold if only top 3 play as well.

    stp
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    ReefAquarium wrote: »
    Here I fold everything except AA or KK.

    Anyone play with QQ here?

    I may call with QQ here...you have to remove KK and AA out of the villians range due to the fact that usually KK and AA play with a re-raise and not a shove.

    Most guys who pick up AA and KK in this stage of the tourney are looking to isolate and usually re-raise in this situation so they can call a shove being way ahead.

    A shove to a re-raise usually signifies in my mind JJs and under or AK/AQ
  • _obv__obv_
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    I may call with QQ here...you have to remove KK and AA out of the villians range due to the fact that usually KK and AA play with a re-raise and not a shove.

    Most guys who pick up AA and KK in this stage of the tourney are looking to isolate and usually re-raise in this situation so they can call a shove being way ahead.

    A shove to a re-raise usually signifies in my mind JJs and under or AK/AQ

    not sure how you can eliminate AA and KK from the reraisers range... with his stack a shove is really the only reraise he can make
  • MarcoGDMarcoGD
    I've been in this situation before and, although it can be tough, most times I've managed to fold big slick (unless I had a great read on the guy shoving) but always wondered if it was the right play or if I was playing too tight. It's reassuring to see that most of you would do the same.
  • ReefAquariumReefAquarium
    SirWatts wrote: »
    Pretty sure KK is a fold here, AA is probably a call since you're still in decent shape if you lose.

    You're probably right as usual.

    Care to explain why KK is a fold? Here I think because the re-raiser has a big range you can play KK? But I'm just guessing. Anyone got ICM crunching / mathproving braincells working here?
  • Davis08Davis08
    this is a very good hand analysis, i like this thread and i like Farough's reasoning to play QQ in this situation. :)
    then again i can see the need to get your money in when you want it in, not when someone else is pressuring you to put it in, in the satellite situation since survival is necessary..

    maniac's are best at beating pros
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