angle-shooting or shrewd play?
ok, let's say it was 'me' in the hand. even though it wasn't. honest. i was there and witnessed it and found the situation to be quite amusing but i would feel like shit if it happened to me. i have probably messed up some of the details but you should get the gist of it.
villain is an uber loose-aggressive idiot. he has been fairly boorish at the table, has acted out of turn, criticizing the players and dealers, etc. generally, not a nice person to associate with, if not for the generous donations he has been making to others gathered there.
to the hand in question: the board is mostly low cards, if i recall, not paired and not flushed but a straight is remotely possible. 'i' have 2 pr with a 75s. he is first to act and the pot is maybe 75-100. he checks. ('i' have been warned that sometimes he makes oversized river CR bets.)
'i' want to get paid off so 'i' bet only 50, leaving maybe 150-225 behind, perhaps hoping he'll make one of those crazy river CR bluffs. villain quickly scoops up a big stack of chips and slams it into the pot, raising 'me' enough to put 'me' all-in (or close to it). 'i' take this to mean he either has the nuts or air. it is a tough decision but 'i'm leaning towards calling. 'i' gather 'my' chip stacks together and get 'my' hands behind them, ready to push them in. as 'i' do this, 'i' say these words (and only these words), "well, if i lose this one, then i'm going home'.
as 'i' say this and before 'i' move my stacks, villain bursts out of his chair and says he has a straight. 'i' then calmly say, 'well then, i fold.'
the fold is ruled valid (at multiple levels of authority over a period of 10 minutes or more). this puts villain on insane monkey tilt, looking for anyone in the room who supports his side. strangely, no support was to be found.
am 'i' an angle-shooter? was 'i' unethical? is villain a total moron for acting out of turn?
note, villain did not show his hand. it is quite possible he was shooting an even bigger angle! never a dull moment at the old stable...
villain is an uber loose-aggressive idiot. he has been fairly boorish at the table, has acted out of turn, criticizing the players and dealers, etc. generally, not a nice person to associate with, if not for the generous donations he has been making to others gathered there.
to the hand in question: the board is mostly low cards, if i recall, not paired and not flushed but a straight is remotely possible. 'i' have 2 pr with a 75s. he is first to act and the pot is maybe 75-100. he checks. ('i' have been warned that sometimes he makes oversized river CR bets.)
'i' want to get paid off so 'i' bet only 50, leaving maybe 150-225 behind, perhaps hoping he'll make one of those crazy river CR bluffs. villain quickly scoops up a big stack of chips and slams it into the pot, raising 'me' enough to put 'me' all-in (or close to it). 'i' take this to mean he either has the nuts or air. it is a tough decision but 'i'm leaning towards calling. 'i' gather 'my' chip stacks together and get 'my' hands behind them, ready to push them in. as 'i' do this, 'i' say these words (and only these words), "well, if i lose this one, then i'm going home'.
as 'i' say this and before 'i' move my stacks, villain bursts out of his chair and says he has a straight. 'i' then calmly say, 'well then, i fold.'
the fold is ruled valid (at multiple levels of authority over a period of 10 minutes or more). this puts villain on insane monkey tilt, looking for anyone in the room who supports his side. strangely, no support was to be found.
am 'i' an angle-shooter? was 'i' unethical? is villain a total moron for acting out of turn?
note, villain did not show his hand. it is quite possible he was shooting an even bigger angle! never a dull moment at the old stable...
Comments
Being calm and cool at the poker table at all times prevents this from happening....worked well in your case.
I would have done the exact same thing, except I would have mucked my hand face up and said thank you.
There is nothing that I can't stand more at the table are these professors who claim to be god's gift to poker and then complain when they get it up the ass by the Jesus of Poker
if your chips didn't cross the line
then you are not all-in.
I was there...saw the whole movie...ate popcorn.
It is my opinion the 'I' in this story had every intention of pushing allin on Mr. Donkey, but that due to his over anxious slip of the tongue, screwed himself out of very nice pot. Was it 'I's intention to angle shoot? No, not in my opinion. He knew the ruling and the oppurtunity presented itself to him to avoid disaster.
Can't blame 'I' for taking advantage of the moment due to the inability of Mr. Donkey to keep his mouth shut at a crucial time.
BTW...for the record...he DID have the straight.
what is with people and thinking that this 'line' is what determines whether or not its a bet/raise.
The line is there so you guys know what is a nice and acceptable place to PUT your betting/raising chips so that the dealer can reach them. Contrary to popular belief, dealers don't have GO-GO-Gadget arms and can't reach the chips/cards that you just seem to toss in wherever you see fit.
It is a 'courtesty line' for the dealers that is all. If you throw a chip and it doesnt cross the line, its in there buddy.
And its a commonly accepted practise that the chip line is more than just to make it easier on the dealer. Once over, they are considered pot, not stack. Whether or not the dealer can reach them is irrelevant. Most tables I've played on don't even have a line, but players still respect the concept.
good feedback. i tend to agree with those saying it is not a call. the only grey area would be the idea that 'my' comments clearing indicated 'i' was calling even though those specific words did not come out.
i think if the villain had kept his mouth shut for another .5 seconds, the chips would have been moved in, indicating a call. a good example of how you can screw yourself with excitement/impatience.
The line is absolutely a bet line, as well as a muck line. Your cards cross the line, they are muked. Your chips cross the line, it's a bet/call/raise. I've never been to a poker room that had a line that wasn't enforced.
If you toss a chip and it doesnt cross the line, its still a bet.
If someone shoves their whole stack forward like 6 inches, but it doesnt cross the line....it's still a bet/raise/whatever
But as already stated, was not the point of this thread