50NL - Battle From the BB
This guy is like a 22/16 with an aggression factor of about 3 over 200ish hands. I have taken several pots away from him calling his raises from the cut off, floating the flop and having him shut down on the turn.
The table has been tightish and he has been opening his SB into me just a bit too much.
I am playing about 25/18 2 for the session.
2 part question:
- Is Jx a big enough part of his range that he would fire 3 bullets with it here? If he has a King I conceed that I am beat. K8 or worse is neccesary and I don't see him opening that.
- If it is likely that he will do this with a Jack can I get him to call my small river raise? I snap called the whole way hoping that I am repping a flush draw.
FullTiltPoker Game #5299334203: Table Ibizo (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:50:20 ET - 2008/02/17
Seat 1: SweetCherriePie ($88.15)
Seat 2: alvaro espinoza ($34.35)
Seat 3: KillDevil666 ($32.75)
Seat 4: KK-Cowboy-KK ($69.90)
Seat 5: IJackit ($64.05)
Seat 6: VRock14 ($20)
KK-Cowboy-KK posts the small blind of $0.25
IJackit posts the big blind of $0.50
5 seconds left to act
The button is in seat #3
Holecards:
Dealt to IJackit [
]
SweetCherriePie folds
alvaro espinoza folds
KillDevil666 folds
KK-Cowboy-KK raises to $1.50
IJackit calls $1
Flop:
[
]
KK-Cowboy-KK bets $2
IJackit calls $2
Turn:
[ ] [ 
]
KK-Cowboy-KK bets $4
IJackit calls $4
River:
[ ] [ 
]
KK-Cowboy-KK bets $8
IJackit has 15 seconds left to act
IJackit raises to $20
KK-Cowboy-KK has 15 seconds left to act
The table has been tightish and he has been opening his SB into me just a bit too much.
I am playing about 25/18 2 for the session.
2 part question:
- Is Jx a big enough part of his range that he would fire 3 bullets with it here? If he has a King I conceed that I am beat. K8 or worse is neccesary and I don't see him opening that.
- If it is likely that he will do this with a Jack can I get him to call my small river raise? I snap called the whole way hoping that I am repping a flush draw.
FullTiltPoker Game #5299334203: Table Ibizo (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:50:20 ET - 2008/02/17
Seat 1: SweetCherriePie ($88.15)
Seat 2: alvaro espinoza ($34.35)
Seat 3: KillDevil666 ($32.75)
Seat 4: KK-Cowboy-KK ($69.90)
Seat 5: IJackit ($64.05)
Seat 6: VRock14 ($20)
KK-Cowboy-KK posts the small blind of $0.25
IJackit posts the big blind of $0.50
5 seconds left to act
The button is in seat #3
Holecards:
Dealt to IJackit [
]SweetCherriePie folds
alvaro espinoza folds
KillDevil666 folds
KK-Cowboy-KK raises to $1.50
IJackit calls $1
Flop:
[
]KK-Cowboy-KK bets $2
IJackit calls $2
Turn:
[
] [ ]KK-Cowboy-KK bets $4
IJackit calls $4
River:
[
] [ ]KK-Cowboy-KK bets $8
IJackit has 15 seconds left to act
IJackit raises to $20
KK-Cowboy-KK has 15 seconds left to act
Comments
Ok so where was that thinking when he lit up on the turn and river this time?
Have you ever thought about three betting here? It will really make him think twice about opening against you again, plus you really define his hand.
Why would he do it here when he hasn't been double/triple barrelling before?
Why do you think he has a jack? You think he has no pair whatsoever, just jack high? or are you thinking KJ?
If you think that he is capable of bluffing you the whole way then your line is fine as you wont get anymore into the pot. But then why in the world would he call?
Seriously, I have no idea wether you are ahead or behind. I am not sure how you would either. 22/16 could be very wide heads up. KQ, KJ, TJs, QQ, 99, K9, are all ahead of you and all very real possibilities given his range and actions.
Before pushing this river I would try and define his hand more, raise preflop or the flop or the turn; you need to get a better idea of where you are. I would prefer check calling here, (and that is from an aggro ~33/22/4) because I really don't know wether I am good. One of the biggest lessons I have learned in the last 2000 hands is that it is NOT what your hand is, it is what your opponents hand isn't.
What are you thinking he would fold for $12 into a $40 pot? Maybe the K, but really only a hand like AQ, A9 maybe K9 are going to get to this point based on betting and then fold.
I'm sure there is more information; but based on what you have I favour check calling.
Sorry for the confusion.
People do a lot of strange things from the blinds, I see huge spewage all the time with pure crap. There is a ton of hands some people will open with in this spot and then keep firing.
My point about him firing 1 bullet on previous hands is only to illustrate that he has done just that and I have taken advange of it. Now that we are in the blinds and he may have pegged me as a floater he may be more likely to keep hammering away with a marginal hand.
I don't like raising at any point prior to the river in this hand because if he is spewing, I don't want to shut him down.
Its not spewing it's stealing. Your playing more that your opponent has nothing and typically they dont have anything so it works quite often. Of course when they get called down it looks like spewage and crap but it works more then it doesnt, or your doing it too much.
Your thinking toooo much here, there isn't alot of third level thinking, then alone second level thinking. His stats and previous history show he is passive here unless he has something.
IF he is spewing, what if he is value betting? Wouldn't you want to know that on the flop for 8 bucks rather then the river for $20 if not more if he pushes?
There is a case for this play if the guy was a 40/30/5 but he just isn't. You have position and you should use it.
So what changes on the river? If he is spewing, he folds to your raise. If he has never 3 barrelled on you before, it seems unlikely he is spewing here, so just call the river bet and lose the minimum. I have to agree with Tyson here, much more common for him to just be pounding away for value here than trying to keep you from floating and then taking it away on the turn.
I don't see you getting enough value from hands which you beat that are strong enough to call a river raise (weaker K or AQ even seem unlikely to me) and maybe you fold a hand like KJ or AK but I doubt that unless you have seen him make some big laydowns before.
As I said above, I'd call the river and be happy about it, but I don't think putting more into this pot is warranted. With the river raise you have committed almost half your stack without any idea what your opponent has
Lately my game has arrived in a spot where I routinely rattle off 300-400 hands in a session without finding myself with a really difficult decision. This is not a brag by any means, I feel like I am playing it too safe. I think that taking it to the next level will take finding some thinner spots for value but there really isn’t a playbook for these types of spots. It is experience + feel + I don’t know exactly what.
I appreciate all of the input as well. Thanks guys (and gals obv.).
I would also like to comment on some of the feedback as well. My OP question was related to the river raise. I am comfortable with the hand up until that point and comfortable with a call on the river as well. There always seems to be this ‘Raise to see where you are at’ mentality by a lot of players and quite frankly I disagree with it.
If villain fires a second barrel on the turn and I feel that I am still ahead of his range even with my medium strength hand, what does raising here accomplish?
1.He folds a worse hand and I get no river value from his worse hand.
2.He re-raises a better hand and I fold paying the same price as I would have to call a river bet and get a showdown.
3.He re-raises a worse hand and I fold paying the same price as I would have to call a river bet and get a showdown.
4.He calls and we likely get more bets in on the river where I am more likely behind.
5.He calls and we go check/check on the river but I am more likely behind.
IMO raising here gets me less value that just calling behind with my hand.
Try getting to 33/25, check your steal % and get more aggressive
It will give you much harder decisions, but then you will easily make the move up to $100NL or $200NL
IMO raising here gets you felted with TPMK, but you have it figured out why are you asking what we thought of the river?
Maybe, but you also don't want to fall into the trap of attempting to overplay villians that are clueless. I dont know the 50NL level, but I'm going to assume that the optimal EV path is pretty straightforward.
I am not looking to change my style. I'm looking to find more value within my own. Looking over recent data I play anywhere between 30/22 and 17/13 depending on the table.
I don't get it.
True enough straightforward wins monies, just not the most monies. I am looking to both increase my win rate and prepare for the next level.
Sorry, I just meant that maybe you want to look at having bigger pots up front when you are ahead, ie three betting here if you think his range is a crap - based on the fact that you thought you were ahead of his range the whole way.
As opposed to pushing the river here, when really you don't know well unless your on absolute.
Sorry, I thought you asked our opinion about the line you took. Looking back you didn't, it was just a hand looking for? praise?
So Good Job, great line, when I can read hands like that and push on the river man will I clean up!
Wrong, at this level strong solid play, like a 22/16 wins. Fancy plays here actually will lose you money for the most part; if your line is a zigzag, you have to remember that most at this level cant follow it up. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone with an agressive attitude to start so maybe it isnt for everyone, but I have started to slam the 200NL by being MORE aggressive.
I really think that the way to build pots is get more aggressive and play position hard!
What is your Cbet percentage when you open? How often do you three bet? or 4bet preflop?
Go and watch 2500NL or 5000NL, you get a great idea of how big these guys bang.
I feel like I am ahead. But not way ahead, and I am not looking to bloat the pot. 3-Betting is definately one way of taking advantage of him opening light from the SB, being passive from postion is another.
Read the post for the love of God. I was asking for input on the river-raise. You offered the advice that I should have re-raised pre-flop, on the flop, and on the turn and I disagree. If I believe that he is light then why would I raise him and stop him from firing. Difference of opinion I guess.
Last I saw you had about 4000 hands in at $200NL. I would caution you on thinking that you are crushing the level at this point. Not saying you aren't but I wouldn't get ahead of myself.
60%ish, more than everyone else, rarely and almost never as a bluff it isn't profitable here.
Emulating high stakes while you play low stakes is like playing basketball on a hockey rink.
I agree that it would make no sense to raise the river here, assuming he was spewing. I would raise the turn for value and info, then call (or fold) the river, depending on the size of the bet into you
25/16 2 means:
25% volentery put money in the pot preflop.
16% preflop raise.
2 Agresion factor ... twice as likely to raise/bet as call
These stats are generated by programs like Poker Tracker.