Pointers please - several mistakes, please help (500FPP to $200+15 on Sunday)

Pigga

please point out to me where i made the mistake here , imo , i made 4-5 mistakes on this hand in general and what i can do to avoid it,up until this point i had played a great tournament i beleive.
500fpp entry to $200+15 for sunday (1st place only)

PokerStars Game #727595266: Tournament #2828561, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2004/09/28 - 16:33:59 (ET)
Table '2828561 3' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Floor (6395 in chips)
Seat 2: jorg1 (8110 in chips)
Seat 3: fadgernadger (105 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 4: Genie1234 (4373 in chips)
Seat 5: OddB (3078 in chips)
Seat 6: oddone (7770 in chips)
Seat 7: tr4300 (5258 in chips)
Seat 8: Pigga (5411 in chips)
oddone: posts small blind 100
tr4300: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Pigga [Jd Qs]
Pigga: raises 400 to 600
Floor: folds
jorg1: folds
fadgernadger: folds
Genie1234: folds
OddB: folds
oddone: folds
tr4300: calls 400

the table had tightened up, i was just doing it to maybe take a few blinds, if someone goes over the top, i fold.... just cold calls....... maybe my first mistake, playing QJo in UTG....... mistake one



*** FLOP ***
tr4300: checks
Pigga: checks

mistake #2 - i have the nut str8 to a rainbow board.....i could of taken the pot here with probably a 600-800 bet i beleive





*** TURN *** [8c]
tr4300: checks
Pigga: bets 400

Mistake #3 betting 400 into about 2k pot.....still nut str8 and no flush draw possible


tr4300: raises 400 to 800
Pigga: raises 400 to 1200

Mistake #4 re-raising the minimum again.......enough to allow a suckout.....i probably pushed all in or at least 1600 more but at that point i only had probably about 3600, and should of moved in



tr4300: calls 400
*** RIVER *** [9s]
tr4300: bets 1000
Pigga: raises 1000 to 2000

Mistake #5 raising here......w/ a paired board.....honestly im embarassed about it now....i should of just called, then again the hand should of never got this far...


jorg1 is disconnected
tr4300: raises 1458 to 3458 and is all-in
Pigga: calls 1458

Mistake #6 - at this point i felt i had to call.....thats my major mistake i think. (one of many) on the turn he had 10 outs (3T,3K,3-9's, 1-8) right?

i knew i should of made a move on the flop, but with rainbow, i wanted to slowplay/trap him for all his chips (had him barely covered) and the turn i thought i was invinciable.

jorg1 is connected
Pigga said, "ah"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
tr4300: shows [8d 8s] (a full house, Eights full of Nines)
Pigga: shows [Jd Qs] (a straight, Nine to King)
Pigga said, "fricking hell"
tr4300 collected 10616 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10616 | Rake 0
Board
Seat 1: Floor folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: jorg1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: fadgernadger folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Genie1234 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: OddB (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: oddone (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: tr4300 (big blind) showed [8d 8s] and won (10616) with a full house, Eights full of Nines
Seat 8: Pigga showed [Jd Qs] and lost with a straight, Nine to King


Please give advice as i want to improve my tournament play dearly. i dont know whether or not on the turn if i pushed if he was going to call or not....but it probably shouldnt of gotten to the turn or i shouldnt of played the hand in the first place.....Thanks

Josh FP

On the Flop i'd probably bet about half the pot or 2/3rds of the pot. The last thing i want is my opponent hitting a a J or Q on the turn to give him a higher straight (AJ, AQ).

If Called, I'd probably push all my remaining chips in on the turn, the pot is big enough that you want to take it down while you can. In this case though, after you checked the flop as well, there is a good chance he would have called had you pushed on the turn thinking his set was good.

Just my thoughts.

Pigga

anything wrong with my preflop raise or? if he came over the top of me id fold but maybe i should of limped/or raised a bit more.....i think he was going to see the flop one way or another

vinsanity

I don't think the check on the flop was a mistake. You have the nuts that could stand a free card. I would probably also slowplay this most of the time. I might bet out a little bit if I think he caught a piece of the flop and will stick around. But I don't think the check is a bad play at all with that flop. On the turn however, after he CHECKRAISES me I know he's got something big and is going to pay me off. either slowplaying a set/2 pr on the flop or hitting the lower str8 or the set of 8. So I raise him BIG knowing he's gonna call or reraise. But in hindsight, he's not going anywhere and he just hit a lucky river. That's poker sometimes.


edit, don't evaluate your play based on the results

Tilter

I think slowplaying the flop was correct, you had a big hand and you wanted to get paid off. Low betting the turn was bad, and the reraise was even worst. Thats what I like to say when I play homegames, remember guys, this is NL, not Limit, you dont have to bet minimum. And when I call the min and I beat them, the complain that they raised and I should have folded to 1 bet! lol

Unknown

Hi Pigga,

Preflop:

I would fold JQo UTG. You raised, which is better than calling to be sure, but you will only get called by better hands, and your hand isn't strong enough to take a re-raise. Furthermore, you're out of position on everyone but the blinds for the rest of the hand. If you were a very shortstack or a very large stack, it might be a different story, but your stack of approximately 25 X BB isn't big enough to bully the table, and can wait for better spots than this one.

The Flop:

I'll have to disagree (a bit) with my esteemed pokerforum colleague's opinions about slowplaying this flop, for two reasons:

1) Slowplaying 66 on a 6Q2 rainbow flop is different from slowplaying JQ on a 9TK rainbow flop. If your opponent has a gutshot straight draw (any hand with a J or a Q) you want to charge him to chase it. Chopping this hand is not a desired outcome, and if the turn brings a J or a Q, there's a chance that's what you'll be doing. You can still take it slow, but I'd be inclined to bet just enough to make it incorrect for him to chase a gutshot, which isn't very much.

2) More importantly, you raised preflop, and the flop came KT9. If you missed the flop completely, would you bet? Of course you would... you have position, you showed strength preflop, the flop's been checked to you, and it's the sort of flop that a UTG preflop raiser would usually like. I like to play hands (more or less) the same, regardless of whether or not I actually made a hand. Online, it’s impossible for a player to “read” me, but my opponents can get a lot of information by looking at the way I bet my hands. For this reason, I like to try to maintain some consistent patterns, so that the only question my opponents will be able to ask themselves is: ‘does he have it this time, or doesn’t he?’ Of course, there are no hard and fast ‘rules’ about this stuff, but this is one of the things I try to do to give my opponents as little information about me as possible.

Having said all of that, I’d probably bet about 400 into this 1300 pot. Looks kinda like a scared steal-attempt, and maybe he’ll play back at you, or maybe he’ll call with a weak hand to ‘keep you honest’.

The Turn:

Assuming the flop was checked, as it was in your case, I’d bet about 600 to 800 on the turn. When he check-raises you, you should either re-raise all-in, or raise the size of the pot if it wouldn’t commit either of you (I didn’t do the math).

The River:

Once the board pairs, after all of the action on the turn, I’d probably just call the river bet. Of course, that’s easy to say, and I’d like to think I’d be able to avoid going broke here. The truth is, in the heat of battle, I’m not sure if I’d have that kind of discipline. I’ve been able to avoid going broke in these spots before, but certainly not every time.

To emphasize vinsanity’s point, don’t evaluate your play based on the results. I probably wouldn’t have been in the hand to begin with, but if I was, it’s entirely possible that my results would have been the same as they were for you, even though my play on every street would have been different.

Regards,
all_aces