I suck: (HH and open invitation to hate me)
Ok, I started playing online again.. and I have taken it prison style for my first few tournaments. Then I won a little sat. which lead to my playing this: which is to my recollection the first time I've ever played a hand, gone to bed and still woken up pissed off at myself.
I hate that I limped, I hate all my bet sizes, I hate it all. I'm a terrible player and I wish I'd learned how to cook, so I could seek work as a housewife/domestic type.
Enjoy my first ever HH
(oh yeah..here's the worst part: Villian is playing very tight, and has only seen me showdown reasonable hands-I am certain he does NOT have a flush)
-I suck/rant
*********** # 12 **************
PokerStars Game #13825280243: Tournament #69523226, $300+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2007/12/12 - 23:02:32 (ET)
Table '69523226 76' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: mossified84 (10088 in chips)
Seat 2: GOHAB$ (14931 in chips)
Seat 3: Harold Wang (2515 in chips)
Seat 4: JERRRY (2370 in chips)
Seat 5: 4ofaKindBud (4800 in chips)
Seat 6: Kristy_Sea (2945 in chips)
Seat 7: david_a (8415 in chips)
Seat 8: roosterbill (2610 in chips)
Seat 9: reload07 (8430 in chips)
Kristy_Sea: posts small blind 100
david_a: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Kristy_Sea [Qs Qh]
roosterbill: folds
reload07: folds
mossified84: folds
GOHAB$: folds
Harold Wang: folds
JERRRY: folds
4ofaKindBud: folds
Kristy_Sea: calls 100
david_a: checks
*** FLOP *** [Th 3h 7d]
Kristy_Sea: bets 200
david_a: calls 200
*** TURN *** [Th 3h 7d] [7h]
Kristy_Sea: bets 400
david_a: calls 400
*** RIVER *** [Th 3h 7d 7h] [4c]
Kristy_Sea: bets 600
david_a: calls 600
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Kristy_Sea: shows [Qs Qh] (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
david_a: shows [7s 5d] (three of a kind, Sevens)
david_a collected 2800 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2800 | Rake 0
Board [Th 3h 7d 7h 4c]
Seat 1: mossified84 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: GOHAB$ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Harold Wang folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: JERRRY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 4ofaKindBud (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Kristy_Sea (small blind) showed [Qs Qh] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Seat 7: david_a (big blind) showed [7s 5d] and won (2800) with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 8: roosterbill folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: reload07 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
I hate that I limped, I hate all my bet sizes, I hate it all. I'm a terrible player and I wish I'd learned how to cook, so I could seek work as a housewife/domestic type.
Enjoy my first ever HH
(oh yeah..here's the worst part: Villian is playing very tight, and has only seen me showdown reasonable hands-I am certain he does NOT have a flush)
-I suck/rant
*********** # 12 **************
PokerStars Game #13825280243: Tournament #69523226, $300+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2007/12/12 - 23:02:32 (ET)
Table '69523226 76' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: mossified84 (10088 in chips)
Seat 2: GOHAB$ (14931 in chips)
Seat 3: Harold Wang (2515 in chips)
Seat 4: JERRRY (2370 in chips)
Seat 5: 4ofaKindBud (4800 in chips)
Seat 6: Kristy_Sea (2945 in chips)
Seat 7: david_a (8415 in chips)
Seat 8: roosterbill (2610 in chips)
Seat 9: reload07 (8430 in chips)
Kristy_Sea: posts small blind 100
david_a: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Kristy_Sea [Qs Qh]
roosterbill: folds
reload07: folds
mossified84: folds
GOHAB$: folds
Harold Wang: folds
JERRRY: folds
4ofaKindBud: folds
Kristy_Sea: calls 100
david_a: checks
*** FLOP *** [Th 3h 7d]
Kristy_Sea: bets 200
david_a: calls 200
*** TURN *** [Th 3h 7d] [7h]
Kristy_Sea: bets 400
david_a: calls 400
*** RIVER *** [Th 3h 7d 7h] [4c]
Kristy_Sea: bets 600
david_a: calls 600
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Kristy_Sea: shows [Qs Qh] (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
david_a: shows [7s 5d] (three of a kind, Sevens)
david_a collected 2800 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2800 | Rake 0
Board [Th 3h 7d 7h 4c]
Seat 1: mossified84 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: GOHAB$ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Harold Wang folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: JERRRY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 4ofaKindBud (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Kristy_Sea (small blind) showed [Qs Qh] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Seat 7: david_a (big blind) showed [7s 5d] and won (2800) with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 8: roosterbill folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: reload07 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Comments
Because I'm not sure what you did wrong. If anything, Villian let you off the hook on the river.
/g2
That's the point, he let me off the hook because he was such a tight ass..who really checks behind with 777 there in sb v. bb...I already knew how he was, I should have saved myself 600 min.
Isn't anyone going to give me shit for bet sizing etc. How do you play this? When/why do you chose specific actions?
Talk to me like I'm a stupid woman, who can't play.
Four words for you punkin'....
"I call, Queen high." :P
Post flop is fine. He may have checked behind on the river but you get value from likely any top pair hands the way you played it.
Well before anything;
WTF were you thinking? Your a much better player so I am wondering what play were you trying to make?
You know the play was wrong but why did you make it?
No post flop is not fine, min betting with an over pair into a flush draw? If he is a tight player you don't compound the first mistake by making another.
He called the bet with midpair and no draw so he is obv. not that much of a nit.
Sarcasm? Of course he called, I think good agressive player actually raises here. But the call gives a great chance with position to take this hand away with the flush hitting the turn or river. However a NIT would call - passive calling the whole way.
I would think that was what Kristy thought, the BB should have raised the SB call with any two, so limping with QQ isnt a horrible play. (even more so if Kristy is on her normal game, although there is a possibility that a really really good player would think her limp is suspicious)
However, if this was the play why min bet the flop? Kristy..again wtf were you thinking?
For a guy that wants to win 150K or whatever playing poker, you should definately check out potsize before you start ranting and raving about min betting. Kristy 'min bet' half the pot on the flop in a blind battle with a monster hand.
EXTREMELY STANDARD.
7/10 you'll win the hand right there, 1/10 he calls your bet with top pair, 2/10 he calls you with worse and 1/100th of the time he makes trips on you.
Fucking results based thinking.
Kristy, my advice to you is to never ask the forum for help when you show the result of your hand. If you instead broke it down into a F/T/R WWYD post, Redington's the first one shoving the river I'm sure.
Standard? The M is 10
1. Limping with QQ in SB? Standard?
2. Giving 4-1 on flush draw flop against a NIT? Standard?
The result is secondary... what I was more interested is why limp with QQ here?
Then why min bet with a flush draw showing?
Im sure that Kristy had a plan and that was what I am more interested with here. But at M10 in a MTT can you afford to be this fancy?
The villians play is standard, he did EXACTLY what a NIT would do. Calling down against a flush for 3.5 to 1. I think the fact that he only called because he was scared of a flush lends to the fact he might have been pushed off of the hand.
I have also played with Kristy and she is ultra aggressive, hence why I am wondering about the play. Just doesnt seem like her normal MO.
Plus I really cant see myself doing this play against a tight player. If I was against a LAG absolutley, so I am wondering the thinking process.
I don't see a big problem here...
The villan david_a is a solid player in mtt's. Up about $185,000 with a 70% roi.
He's the 18th best $38-$100 9-10 handed sng player on stars.
You played with some deception in your play.
That makes it harder to read. Both ways.
It screwed him up when you "Hit your flush draw"
I dont' see the problem???
You don't have to play this guy ABC...
Personally I would have raised and done the pushbot thing.AND LOST
limping preflop is fine sometimes against an agressive opponent
I tried, in vain, to link to a discussion I had many years ago with Scotty and Aces on this very subject. A Villian limped in a tourney with JJ in the SB and landed up going busto against Hero BB's trips. Everyone poo-poo'd the JJ open-limp at first like you are doing now.
The point that I made back then is that JJ (here QQ) is attempting to maximize EV from the hand by playing it in a high variance manner.
Jebus man, it's the BB with a random hand. People who are extremely tight in a full ring can have very different styles when playing out of the blinds. It's usually some form of "He's not gonna push *ME* around".
Second, 4 to 1? huh? 400 in pot on flop, kristy 200 bet.. 3 to 1.
To get a caller. If you give the BB say the top 30% of hand, the guy isn't on the flush draw just because two suits flop.
You make Villians turtle. Normally tight players are also looking to press the fold button. By betting on the streets, you get to basically control the pot size OOP. Your bets could be on the small side where Villians SHOULD raise, but they're too fearful of running into a bigger hand.
Because a tight player is folding to any raise preflop and it can be more profitable to let them catch a piece of a flop. Higher variance of course.
/g2
For one street only. (Just for clarification)
/g2
/g2
/g2
I should define my use of tight to say that he's not waiting for aces, but he isn't playing back with any two/position. My sense was that he was just staying out of the way and playing very reasonably. My limp pf gets bumped up with any ace or a sensible king, all pairs..and I would probably have just stomped him back down into his place and sent a 'thanks for the 20% stack boost' card.
On the flop my intent was to leave room for him to test the waters, I'm ok with 1/2 pot min bet, it is higher variance but with 15 BB I'm ok with a minor gamble like this. I will lead that pretty much regardless against one opponent like this guy... but from that part on I hate my play. There is no conceivable card for him to call on that turn with which I should be leading the river...I'm apathetic on betting the turn, I really could argue either way...but betting the river.. I'm an uber-donk.
I was premtively making the point before some foo posted, "OMG he's 3-1 to make a flush by the river!!!!" Blah blah chow meow
Ok, but at M10 can you afford the variance?
Wouldn't this be an arguement for raising?
Oops thanks to G2 for pointing this out too.
Still three to one... this is a very drawy board.
No only flush draw, also a straight draw.
Considering cards that are calling here.
The flop should end the fancy play, no?
OOP with a TPMK or very decent draw, of course. With an overpair, I am thinking of agressively building a pot OOP not defensively controlling it. Again looking at THAT board I am not fearful of MP but the draws are the action I have to be careful of. The turn heart either gives me a stop or a go... but not a yellow with this stack size.
Wouldnt that be an arguement for a push on the river?
To the truest and longest term thinking poker player, variance is nothing more than noise that masks your true winrate. It's always maximizing EV that matters.
I'm a fan of worring about what he most likely has as opposed to what miracle monster had he could have.. Talk of flushes and straights and pricing out draws are discussions you have when you want to pass time. They're not relevant in a blind battle.
Redington, This isn't a battle of UTG and UTG+1. The hand ranges on both sides are super wide.
No because the point of doing the limp is to string him along to call you down with a worse hand.
Ok seriously. I didn't really look at the flop before, but cmon. Aside from two hearts this is the sahara desert of flops. Dry as a bone.
I really don't see it as uber-donkish... You have a solid opponent who has done nothing but call... Why is the bet on the river so bad? Isn't his range pretty wide. It's still a SB v BB. Or does the turn call cement him into a reasonable HAND. Has hasn't seen you make a move yet, But still....
I was going to say the same thing. She needs to maximize what she can get with her QQ. She can wait for the next orbit and steal the blinds with any 2. Is it being greedy? Does it bite you in the ass sometimes? yep. That's poker. If she raises all her good hands and limps all her crap, how is she supposed to get any action?
Wow. 30 posts and not one insult.
I don't think I would ever utilize a drag along at this m level. My primary weapon here outside of cards is stack size and I wouldnt want to do anything to jeopardize it.
Based on a few of the last discussions about tourney play it would seem I need to open up more.
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