Rake Analysis of $2/5 NL
This will be a detailed analysis of the rake structures for $2/5 NL cash games within driving distance of the GTA. If you notice any inaccuracies or know a better 2/5 game, please let me know.
Fallsview Casino & Casino Niagara
$6 session fee every half hour.
Maximum buy-in: only $200 or 40 times the big blind.
Minimum buy-in: $50?
Reward: ~50¢/hr. Be sure to swipe your Players Advantage card before and after your session. Have it re-swiped at 3 AM or whenever they clear the session credits.
Hourly table rake: $120/hour for a full table of ten. Even if all 10 players buy in for the maximum of $200, at least 6% of the money in the table is being drained every hour. It becomes worse in the following cases: some players don't buy-in for the maximum; some players don't top up to the maximum and just let their stack dwindle until they go all-in as a very short stack; one or more big stacks leave the table.
Other costs: Assuming you tip ~$1 for every pot you win and you win the average 3 pots per hour, and you get a free non-alcoholic drink every hour and tip the waitress $1, your other costs would be $4/hour. The reduction on your win/loss rate is ~$16/hour or 3.2 BB/hour. A total of ~$160/hour or at least 8% of the money in play is being taken from the table.
You will pay at least $21 in 3 rounds of blinds per hour. Your total cost is at least $37/hour. You will have to win more than $37 in pots or 7.4 times the big blind every hour in order to come out ahead.
Negative situations:
- When I first sit down at a table, I usually wait until the puck passes me before I post and play. Since one is charged the session fee right away just for sitting down no matter how much time is left for the next fee, I post right away instead of observing the players first.
- You want to have a meal break, but you will be charged for two session fees and post and surrender upon your return. Your $4 McBarf lunch special will actually cost you almost $20.
If your table is not easy or there is no waiting list, you can consider taking your chips and take your time to return to a new table or seat.
- You are paying for any kind of delay, including the deck change procedures (every two hours?) or consistently slow-acting players.
- Automatic shuffling machines acting up. By the way, observing the slow procedures to use the shuffler, it is actually faster for many dealers including myself to do a strip and two extra riffles, and deal out the first card faster than using the shuffler! IMHO, a shuffler does NOT result in more hands per hour compared to many dealers, but benefits include preventing dealer-player cheating such as was found at Casino Rama and increasing the productivity of slow dealers. Since it is ideal to have dealing consistency in multi-table tournaments, it would be great to have shufflers used at next year's WPT.
OK for: tourists & other gamblers who don't mind playing -EV games.
Suggestion: unless you see a $2/5 table with maniacs :fish: donking off their chips, you may be better off playing $1/2 with rake at Casino Niagara (10%, $2 on flop and maximum $5), or if you are a decent player with access to at least $500 in cash, then $5/5 with $500 maximum buy-in is a much better choice.
Fallsview Casino & Casino Niagara
$6 session fee every half hour.
Maximum buy-in: only $200 or 40 times the big blind.
Minimum buy-in: $50?
Reward: ~50¢/hr. Be sure to swipe your Players Advantage card before and after your session. Have it re-swiped at 3 AM or whenever they clear the session credits.
Hourly table rake: $120/hour for a full table of ten. Even if all 10 players buy in for the maximum of $200, at least 6% of the money in the table is being drained every hour. It becomes worse in the following cases: some players don't buy-in for the maximum; some players don't top up to the maximum and just let their stack dwindle until they go all-in as a very short stack; one or more big stacks leave the table.
Other costs: Assuming you tip ~$1 for every pot you win and you win the average 3 pots per hour, and you get a free non-alcoholic drink every hour and tip the waitress $1, your other costs would be $4/hour. The reduction on your win/loss rate is ~$16/hour or 3.2 BB/hour. A total of ~$160/hour or at least 8% of the money in play is being taken from the table.
You will pay at least $21 in 3 rounds of blinds per hour. Your total cost is at least $37/hour. You will have to win more than $37 in pots or 7.4 times the big blind every hour in order to come out ahead.
Negative situations:
- When I first sit down at a table, I usually wait until the puck passes me before I post and play. Since one is charged the session fee right away just for sitting down no matter how much time is left for the next fee, I post right away instead of observing the players first.
- You want to have a meal break, but you will be charged for two session fees and post and surrender upon your return. Your $4 McBarf lunch special will actually cost you almost $20.
If your table is not easy or there is no waiting list, you can consider taking your chips and take your time to return to a new table or seat.- You are paying for any kind of delay, including the deck change procedures (every two hours?) or consistently slow-acting players.
- Automatic shuffling machines acting up. By the way, observing the slow procedures to use the shuffler, it is actually faster for many dealers including myself to do a strip and two extra riffles, and deal out the first card faster than using the shuffler! IMHO, a shuffler does NOT result in more hands per hour compared to many dealers, but benefits include preventing dealer-player cheating such as was found at Casino Rama and increasing the productivity of slow dealers. Since it is ideal to have dealing consistency in multi-table tournaments, it would be great to have shufflers used at next year's WPT.
OK for: tourists & other gamblers who don't mind playing -EV games.
Suggestion: unless you see a $2/5 table with maniacs :fish: donking off their chips, you may be better off playing $1/2 with rake at Casino Niagara (10%, $2 on flop and maximum $5), or if you are a decent player with access to at least $500 in cash, then $5/5 with $500 maximum buy-in is a much better choice.
I believe Seneca's rake on 2/5 or 5/5 NL is the same as it is on 1/2 NL. Rama's rake on 2/5 NL ($500 buy-in) is 10%, $5 max with $2 on the flop. Fallsview 5/5 NL is $6/30 mins. It'd be nice if someone can run those numbers.
Comments
Good analysis, and definitely agreed. DO NOT sit in at a 2/5 NL table at Fallsview unless there are several people playing drunken/donkey poker. You are much better off sitting in at 1/2 or 5/5.
Buy-ins: $100-$500.
Assumptions:
- 10 players buy in for a total of $3,000 or average of $300 each.
- there will be less hands dealt per hour with the non-professional dealer, but the tips will still average ~$30/hour
- players purchase one or two drinks during the session with their chips, taking away an average of $20/hour away from the table.
Rake: 0 being taken off the table.
Cost/hour: an average of only $50/hour is being taken off the table, or only 1.3% of the money in play! In comparison, a Niagara casino is taking ~$160/hour or 8% off the table!
Since it only costs me an average of $5/hour to play, I only need to win that much to break even. The impact on my win/loss rate is only 1 big blind/hour!
Rake-free home games where it is self-dealt with no tips and with BYOB will have zero cost instead of $160/hour.
Future comparisons: Seneca Casino, Casino Rama, 5% with $15 max, and 10% with $10 max.
My conclusion was that the game is unbeatable.
I made an analysis of the Seneca 1/2NL rake.......
Easier to find for reference.
I don't know of a way to import a table full of numbers in this forum, so I won't bother posting the math. Using a reasonable set of assumptions (e.g., 10 players/table and $2,000 total buy-ins) and distribution of pot sizes, here is my ranking of 2/5 games.
1) Rake-free game
2) Casino Rama: ~$114 average rake/hour
3) Seneca Casino: ~$118/hour
4) Fallsview or Casino Niagara: flat $120/hour
5) Any club with 5% & $15 maximum: $179/hour
6) Any club with 10% & $10 maximum: $211/hour!
I think the numbers are counter-intuitive for many people, including myself. I was all set to play a lot of 2/5 at the clubs, but all the clubs I know have a much higher rake than any of the casinos! You would be better off driving to the nearest casino to play 2/5, than go to any club that takes a higher maximum rake than $5, especially with the added risk of being charged by the police.
Casino Rama
Rake: 10% (assume rounded down to the dollar), $2 on the flop and $5 maximum is the lowest average rake.
Buy-in: $100-$500, or up to 100 times the BB.
Reward: 50¢/hour?
Disadvantages: cannot phone ahead, longest waiting lists?
The ~$114 average rake takes away ~5.7% every hour if there is $2,000 in the table. If all 10 players buy in for the $500 maximum or there is a total of $5,000 on the table, then only 2.3% is being drained every hour.
The average rake per person is $11.40 or 2.28 big blinds per hour. If you don't win a single pot, then you don't pay any rake. If you manage to win every single pot in the hour, then you will be the only one paying the whole ~$114 rake (compared to only $12 at a Niagara casino), but you won't care since you will have most of the money in the table!
The more pots that are less than $50, the lower that Rama's rake will be compared to the other cardrooms. For small pots between $12-$49, the rake is less onerous than Seneca Casino and ranges from 7%-17%.
In summary, Casino Rama has the best rake structure. Unfortunately, it is the farthest for most forumers, including me. Whenever I am north of Toronto, I would consider taking a detour to Rama.
What magazine Buddy?
Well if you factor in the average round trip drive of three hours to Rama or Niagara from GTA, the average wait time of 30 minutes for a table (which can be a lot longer), a cost of $21/hr per person may not be too bad. Also considering the gas cost to get up there which is easily $20-$30. If you plan to play at a club for 4-5 hours, the incremental cost of $21 vs $11/person per hour is more than offset by the cost of your time and travel costs. If you have all the time in the world, plan to play a session longer than 5 hours on average, casinos are likely the best route. Otherwise, clubs may still be a better option for some if they have limited time and the club is down the street. Personally, I find the level of play a lot better at Rama than the average club as there seem to be more regulars at the casinos. For some reason, I find it hard to make a profit playing at a casino, whereas I seem to do a lot better at the clubs.