value bet
can somebody explain value bet and what's the situation to use it?
I found this to be another leak of my game.
not putting out that value bet for extra money, or put out that value bet, but it's dead money i'm putting in the middle.
if you have HH with explaination, that would be most appreciated.
for example why i think this is the leak that i need to patch.
IE 1) say 88, no raise PF, out of position.
flop 8K7, bet the flop, get call
Turn 2, bet the turn, get call.
River J, I ......value bet here? of course i would have hard time to call a raise here.
IE 2) AH 2H with on button
Flop 9H 3H 2C, villian bet pot, i call.
Turn JH, villian check, I bet the pot. villian call.
River 3C. villian check I value bet here? if i got action, my flush is certain no good.
I found this to be another leak of my game.
not putting out that value bet for extra money, or put out that value bet, but it's dead money i'm putting in the middle.
if you have HH with explaination, that would be most appreciated.
for example why i think this is the leak that i need to patch.
IE 1) say 88, no raise PF, out of position.
flop 8K7, bet the flop, get call
Turn 2, bet the turn, get call.
River J, I ......value bet here? of course i would have hard time to call a raise here.
IE 2) AH 2H with on button
Flop 9H 3H 2C, villian bet pot, i call.
Turn JH, villian check, I bet the pot. villian call.
River 3C. villian check I value bet here? if i got action, my flush is certain no good.
Comments
Betting for value is when you bet $$$$ with what is likely the best hand.
On the 8K72J board what exactly are you afraid of on the river? edit (The 4 card straight?) <--sorry had trouble reading your HH
BET THAT SHIT FOR VALUE!!
The second hand could definately have some value in a river bet but it is more read dependant IMO.
Yes value bet here, and why not call a raise (although you did not specify suits) if there are not 3 of a suit on board or what size bets the caller was calling. Only really scared of 9T.
Also did not specify what bets were made/called?
Did you bet $10 into $100....
Why did you call on the flop?
You do not have the odds other than possibly implied, but I don't know stack sizes and villian laggyness.
You still have no idea where you are in the hand.
Villan check/call on the turn says he probably hit his J (again no position specified).
I bet 1/2-3/4 pot. TPTK will probably call you.
Need some more info, was villian in SB/BB?
PS Look at some other HH posted so you can see the information provided. You'll get more useful feedback.
I was playing at a 2-5 very loose table with an average of 5 or 6 callers to every flop with or without a raise.
Hand 1:
I had pocket aces with the ace of hearts on the button. Flop is Q-J-x with two hearts. Raised preflop to $25 and got four callers. Checked around to me and I bet $50 and had one caller. The caller had a very loose preflop hand selection. He showed 7-2 as well as several other very weak hands previously. However, we had been heads up several times in a pot and he had folded to my bets in other hands. He never check-raised me. We both had more than $400 going into the hand. I read him as strong, but didn't think he put me on an overpair so he may have been calling with A-Q or K-Q, possibly two pair. The four of hearts came on the turn. Now I had the nut flush draw. The villain checked and I bet $100 to find out if I was ahead in the hand. The villain smooth called and looked very strong. The river was another four. I thought there was a good chance I had counterfeited him with two pair if he had Q-J. However there was a flush on board and I didn't see much value to the bet even if I had just rivered him. I had already put in close to half my stack into the pot. So I checked. It turned out to be a good choice because the villain had pocket queens for a full house. (No preflop raise.) Ironically the villain in this case missed a value bet on the river. He asked me if I would have called a big bet and I said I would have had to think about it. I would have called some amount though. He needed to figure out a good value amount in this case.
Hand 2:
I had A-9 in the small blind (Trevor will love this). There were six or seven limpers in the pot. I limped in myself. The flop came down 9-9-6 with two spades. I checked, hoping someone would bet but it was checked around. An ace came on the turn (not a spade) to give me a full house. Now I have the nuts unless someone limped in with pocket aces and checked the flop. I checked again hoping someone hit the ace but it was checked around. The river brought the king of spades. At this point I have to bet, but I want callers. I hope someone caught the flush or at the very least caught the king. I bet out $15. Under the gun raised to $30 which was music to my ears. Now I am just looking for an amount he can call - what is the value I can get from this bet. I raised to a total of $60. He went all-in for a total of less than $150; I insta-called. It turned out that he had flopped the full house nines and sixes. Obviously it was easy to get the money from my opponent in this case, but I think I had a chance to get money from other people even if they didn't have such a strong hand. The table was full of draw chasers and one person said he would have called my bet because he had a king. I think the important thing to consider is what hands will call you and how much will they call.
P.S.
A couple of other memorable hands yesterday that didn't involve much in the way of value betting but I thought I would report. I had Q-4 of diamonds on the button and called after there were seven limpers in the pot. The flop came down Q-Q-Q and someone else bet the entire way. I didn't have to do anything except raise him all-in for his last $50 on the river. For the other hand I had pocket kings in the big blind. The small blind (who had just arrived at the table and was playing his second hand of the game) raised and I reraised to $50. Everyone else folded and the small blind went all-in, but he had only bought in for $100. I thought briefly that he might have aces, but was willing to risk $50 that he didn't. Of course he did have pocket aces. The flop had three clubs including the ace of clubs and I had the king of clubs. Unfortunately for me I did not catch another club for the flush. Ironically, the only two big pots that I was in that I lost yesterday were my pocket aces and pocket kings. Thank goodness my A-9 and Q-4 held up to make up for those losses and an overall winning session.
Story of my life playing 1/2 at casinos. Make money with garbage and get crushed with the rockets or cowboys. Sometimes I think its better to fold pre-flop with AA with multiple callers because you know what is going to happen (before it does).
I can't really complain too much in these cases because they lost to quality hands. I like your new custom title
thanks for the input
IE 1) the set, vs possible straight, at micro-level, there is alot of players will chase that OESD to the river, T9 would hold the nutz on IE1.
I run pokerstove, and pokertracer to hopefull find leaks on my game.
1. pokerstove say alot time my bet on the river is under the EV, and alot of time i over bet the EV on the river.
basically i screwup the value betting big time.
baiscally, when i bet, people that call me with worse hand, will call a bigger bet as well.
IE. nut flush vs K high flush, I should of got all of his stacked. but i didn't.
when people trapping me with the best hand, i tend to make a bet that is bigger then the EV.
IE. Top Two pair on the flop that contain flash draw.
river will show no flush, and check it to me, so i bet the river, only to be raise by a set......since i was jamming the flop and turn, river bet has committed me too.
what i need to learn is how to do value bet the right way. not the screw up way.
When you use pokertracker remember this. You are always playing against the Villians range.
Using his exact hand when you run the numbers will not work because you never actually know his hand exactly. You only know his range.
Always think in terms of ranges Chuckie. Putting your opponent on an exact holding is a sideshow act.
You can thank BBC Z for that