Pocket Queens on the button
Here is a hand a few of friends and I have been discussing and I was wonder what every ones opinions on it are.
Live NLH $1/$2 game. You have a total of $130
Player UTG with a stack of $200 comes in for a raise of $10, two players behind call, it gets folded to you.
You are on the button with Pocket Queens.
What do you do?
If you raise then the UTG player pushes all-in, what do you do then?
Also you have just got to the table and really have no reads on the players.
Live NLH $1/$2 game. You have a total of $130
Player UTG with a stack of $200 comes in for a raise of $10, two players behind call, it gets folded to you.
You are on the button with Pocket Queens.
What do you do?
If you raise then the UTG player pushes all-in, what do you do then?
Also you have just got to the table and really have no reads on the players.
Comments
if he push all-in. then i did have to fold.
EDIT: I will reraise his $40-$50
This is where we are debating, the pot has $33 before it gets to you, is a raise to $40 enough of a raise? It is easier to fold with a $40 raise if he pushes.
With a raise of $50 there will be a pot of $80 before he pushes and you would have $80 back.
When he pushes that pot will be giving you about 2.5 to 1 on your money, can you fold? You would have to call $80 into a pot that is $203.
As an aside I just read a section of Super Systems 2 which had the follow quote which confused me a bit because it seemed the start of the quote conflicted with the end of it but then I am easily confused at times.
Super Systems 2 Quote on playing QQ
A very identical hand happened to me last Saturday... although I can't recall the exact position I was in. I was in late position with QQ and it was raised $10 with two callers and then re-raised to $30. I decided to isolate and so I re-raised another $50. The only difference was that the re-raiser only had about another $80 behind so by re-raising he had no choice but to push. Everyone folded except the re-raiser who pushed and I called. He had K10 and did not improve. I knew he was a LAG player and I was probably ahead at this point. If he had $200 behind, I probably would have called to see the flop. The only reason I raised was to isolate the LAG player. If one of the other three callers re-raised me, it would have been a tough fold.
I'd do this.
Playing QQ 4handed or more is not too fun. and QQ is way too good of a hand just to set mine with.
Okay so you are looking a pot of $33...
The question you're asking is "Does anyone have AA or KK"
Say he's tight preflop...
UTG would make that raise with TT+ AKo AKs (you can sub in a different range if you like I'm choosing this because it's easy to calculate in my head)
6 ways to make AA, or KK = 12
29 ways to make AK, TT, JJ QQ
What are the stack sizes of the cold callers?.
If they have about $100 then they should *Not* be calling here with KK+ .. so I would not expect them to have AA or KK.
If you push here you will be against KK or AA 12 times , AK 16 times and TT or JJ 12 times and QQ once.
If he plays perfectly against you and folds his TT or JJ, and calls with KK+ AK it's looking pretty bad if you push.
If you call you are getting 3.3 to 1 on your 8 to 1 to flop a set. But going 3.3 to 1 and being a 4 to 1 dog against AA or KK isn't so bad. You have position and if he's like most 1/2 donks you should be able to outplay him postflop.... and if he has AK it's a good thing.
On the button?
With a raise?
easy fold...trust me on this one, they WILL get busted up REAL good.
I was thinking that if you were to raise it to $50 and then call any push should you consider just pushing pre-flop then?
the worst part about this hand is the lack of reads, but i feel that tossing QQ in prime position in a situation where it is likely possible to isolate to heads up is a bad move. yes the reraise is pretty much pot committing you, but smooth calling opens up a whole new can of worms. either or both of the blinds are priced in to call with practically anything. QQ against three or four people becomes much too weak. the blinds could be holding A9 or K9 suited and feel like going for the ride - so despite a possible lower pair (like 1010 JJ) from the UTG raiser, you'd now have to contend with a lot more possible hands.
perhaps i don't understand cash games well enough, but i'd be prepared to bust with QQ in this position - mostly due to the size of my stack since the reraise commits me more or less. if i can't make the 'proper' play (i.e. reraise) then i'm playing with a too short of stack and should top it up.
I treat QQ like JJ - don't mess around them and really see where you're at in the hand. I'm an advocate of a minimum-3x raise in this situation. Try to get the hand down to heads-up so that you're only worried about 1 player as opposed to 3 others
I think what is being said here is with a raise and several callers your looking to "promote" the strength of your hand by being the first one to push. Calling a push with QQ is certainly trouble.
I'll give you a hand yesterday at Rama at a 1/2 table: folded to the button with QQ who raises to $15, BB firesback an all in for $175. Button calls and finds himself up against AA. I think this is the situation you want to avoid.
How do you avoid that if you push and your opponent has AA? He's calling no matter what. Same with KK.
Fact is, the same scare cards exist if you raise or if you push, the difference is you have the power to fold to a big re-raise which you lose by pushing. I'd argue the above play at Rama was a bad one, the person who called (based on previous reads) could have laid that hand down and the person with AA doesn't get paid. The better play for AA there is to call the re-raise and build the hand from the flop.
I see way too much pre-flop pushing due to the WSOP final tables people have seen, the expression I've heard is:
"Donk- But I was ahead when I pushed.
Player - Yes with 5 cards to come"
I think it's very valid in this example, the AA's would hate to see a flush come on the board. Because he hasn't pushed he still has control over his play and potentially can fold his AA based on the play from his opponent. Plus if the board cracks his aces, maybe he's not pushed maybe he's saved some chips to live through the bad beat..
ummm, are you anticipating when you push like that- AA, KK are going to fold and a weaker hand than QQ will call?
Play the player. The type of player raising under the gun here makes a difference what you do. I would raise in every case though because I need info. If a tight aggressive reraises I fold. If it is a loose player I call and hopefully play him for value.
Littering the forum with random junk to make post long enough.
Ryan
I've seen Ryan fold KK face up preflop to AA. If he says you've got to raise and call it is the right play.
lol. I have to improve my reading skills, literally.
But yeah regardless I would still raise. They don't have a read on you either.
Here is the reason. According to the OP, the 10.00 raise received 2 callers. What type of hands here would call a 10.00 bet BUT not raise? Small pairs would. But pairs are somewhat rare and any pairs 10's are better would usually raise. So really just pairs 2 through 9. So much more likely, someone is calling the 10.00 raise with A-x. Maybe even two players with A-X. That significantly reduces the chances the first better has AA or AK and if he has A-k through A-J, you're sitting pretty. Mostly likely, neither of the 2 callers calls a 10 dollars bet with a Q. A-Q maybe, but this hand is often raised. K-Q, Q-J and maybe in a loose game Q-10. I don't anything lower than Q-9. So the Q's should definitely be there to provide outs.
So with Q's, I'd think I was ahead but wouldn't want to face a multi-table with 30 dollars already on the table.
On the other hand, what the fuck do I know?