MTT tourney hand question
Hey all
Okay... so, tell me what you do here, what you think he has, and what the worst case scenario is... results in white...
Mark
POKERSTARS GAME #12235509690: TOURNAMENT #61173195, $3.00+$0.30 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XIII (800/1600) - 2007/09/23 - 23:29:47 (ET)
Table '61173195 273' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: tocatchfish (83413 in chips)
Seat 2: TheWall1 (25390 in chips)
Seat 3: DrTyore (45159 in chips)
Seat 4: LeafsFan1122 (57820 in chips)
Seat 5: Widgets (46931 in chips)
Seat 6: OmahaHighway (89290 in chips)
Seat 7: btd1200 (42449 in chips)
Seat 8: Beach Bum (5695 in chips)
Seat 9: mlpoker2 (53979 in chips)
tocatchfish: posts the ante 150
TheWall1: posts the ante 150
DrTyore: posts the ante 150
LeafsFan1122: posts the ante 150
Widgets: posts the ante 150
OmahaHighway: posts the ante 150
btd1200: posts the ante 150
Beach Bum: posts the ante 150
mlpoker2: posts the ante 150
btd1200: posts small blind 800
Beach Bum: posts big blind 1600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DrTyore [Qs Qc]
mlpoker2: folds
tocatchfish: calls 1600
TheWall1: calls 1600
DrTyore: raises 4900 to 6500
LeafsFan1122: calls 6500
Widgets: folds
OmahaHighway: calls 6500
btd1200: folds
Beach Bum: calls 3945 and is all-in
tocatchfish: folds
TheWall1: folds
*** FLOP *** [5d 7s 4s]
DrTyore: bets 20000
LeafsFan1122: raises 31170 to 51170 and is all-in
OmahaHighway: folds
DrTyore: calls 18509 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [5d 7s 4s] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [5d 7s 4s 3d] [2s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DrTyore: shows [Qs Qc] (a pair of Queens)
LeafsFan1122: shows [Ks Kh] (a pair of Kings)
LeafsFan1122 collected 79883 from side pot
Beach Bum: shows [Jd As] (a straight, Ace to Five)
Beach Bum collected 27530 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 107413 Main pot 27530. Side pot 79883. | Rake 0
Board [5d 7s 4s 3d 2s]
Seat 1: tocatchfish folded before Flop
Seat 2: TheWall1 folded before Flop
Seat 3: DrTyore showed [Qs Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 4: LeafsFan1122 showed [Ks Kh] and won (79883) with a pair of Kings
Seat 5: Widgets folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: OmahaHighway (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: btd1200 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Beach Bum (big blind) showed [Jd As] and won (27530) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 9: mlpoker2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Okay... so, tell me what you do here, what you think he has, and what the worst case scenario is... results in white...
Mark
POKERSTARS GAME #12235509690: TOURNAMENT #61173195, $3.00+$0.30 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XIII (800/1600) - 2007/09/23 - 23:29:47 (ET)
Table '61173195 273' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: tocatchfish (83413 in chips)
Seat 2: TheWall1 (25390 in chips)
Seat 3: DrTyore (45159 in chips)
Seat 4: LeafsFan1122 (57820 in chips)
Seat 5: Widgets (46931 in chips)
Seat 6: OmahaHighway (89290 in chips)
Seat 7: btd1200 (42449 in chips)
Seat 8: Beach Bum (5695 in chips)
Seat 9: mlpoker2 (53979 in chips)
tocatchfish: posts the ante 150
TheWall1: posts the ante 150
DrTyore: posts the ante 150
LeafsFan1122: posts the ante 150
Widgets: posts the ante 150
OmahaHighway: posts the ante 150
btd1200: posts the ante 150
Beach Bum: posts the ante 150
mlpoker2: posts the ante 150
btd1200: posts small blind 800
Beach Bum: posts big blind 1600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DrTyore [Qs Qc]
mlpoker2: folds
tocatchfish: calls 1600
TheWall1: calls 1600
DrTyore: raises 4900 to 6500
LeafsFan1122: calls 6500
Widgets: folds
OmahaHighway: calls 6500
btd1200: folds
Beach Bum: calls 3945 and is all-in
tocatchfish: folds
TheWall1: folds
*** FLOP *** [5d 7s 4s]
DrTyore: bets 20000
LeafsFan1122: raises 31170 to 51170 and is all-in
OmahaHighway: folds
DrTyore: calls 18509 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [5d 7s 4s] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [5d 7s 4s 3d] [2s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DrTyore: shows [Qs Qc] (a pair of Queens)
LeafsFan1122: shows [Ks Kh] (a pair of Kings)
LeafsFan1122 collected 79883 from side pot
Beach Bum: shows [Jd As] (a straight, Ace to Five)
Beach Bum collected 27530 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 107413 Main pot 27530. Side pot 79883. | Rake 0
Board [5d 7s 4s 3d 2s]
Seat 1: tocatchfish folded before Flop
Seat 2: TheWall1 folded before Flop
Seat 3: DrTyore showed [Qs Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 4: LeafsFan1122 showed [Ks Kh] and won (79883) with a pair of Kings
Seat 5: Widgets folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: OmahaHighway (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: btd1200 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Beach Bum (big blind) showed [Jd As] and won (27530) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 9: mlpoker2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Comments
If not, someone has flopped a set/has a straight or straight draw. There is also the flush possibility.
I would of raised more preflop or folded it postflop.
Now time to read to see how big of a donk I am...
Highlight that blank space in the OP and you will see...
Click your mouse at the end of the text...and drag downwards (while holding the button)
Mark
Your M is in the 12-13 range. I would have raised slightly more PF but the results don't change - just less likely to be up against a straight or 2 pr I hope. On that flop, given the money you have left (about 1.5x pot?), you can't get away from the hand without a good read or xray vision. Getting nearly 5-1 on your money on the all-in call you are ahead often enough that folding here would be weak. I guess you could have checked the flop (not my preference) but I still can't see you getting away from this hand.
Checking with pokerstove, if he just had some pair (other than 22, 33):
Board: 5d 7s 4s
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.605% 51.51% 02.10% 26516 1080.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 46.395% 44.30% 02.10% 22804 1080.00 { 44+ }
Compare this to a broader range, 44+, some kind of spade draw, some OESD:
Board: 5d 7s 4s
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.047% 49.38% 01.67% 39594 1340.50 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 48.953% 47.28% 01.67% 37915 1340.50 { 44+, AsKs, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, As9s, As8s, A6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s, K6s, 86s, 76s, 64s+ }
You are around 50% in each case. Too much money in the pot to let this one go.
I call here, sure you can be losing to a set.. no way a flopped straight and the two spades make the flush draw very likely to push the flop.
Turns out he did have KK like I predicted, but on the flop i would of bet maybe 5,000, then folded to any reraise.
I figure that's just the 20/20 hindsight phenomenon....
Regardless.. I figured it was an interesting hand, and I was shocked seeing what the pusher had.
No reads on the table, I was relatively new having recently been moved. As some have said here, I most expected some sort of lame flush / straight draw trying to push me off my AK, or maybe a top pair situation (hey, it WAS a $3 rebuy
Mark
How close to the money are you to the money because that could be a factor in deciding to fold because you have a very nice chip stack and if he has a flush draw or straight draw do you want to risk your whole game on a gamble?
Exactly where did everyone say fold?
Everyone who's trying to cover all thier bases by saying: Well you coulda folded, or you could call , or you could raise, or you could push all-in..
Then they highlight the text:
"Oh look at that, I'm right. I'm g00d."
And bwt, pocket kings got what they deserved for not reraising preflop.
- This isn't a bad beat post (obviously). I think I play the hand the same 99/100 times and overall I make money
- no reads on table
- I was already int eh money, something like the third level in
- I am usually willing to take the "gamble" against flush / straight draws since I"m 66% ahead
- I think my pre-flop raise was about where I wanted it actually... though I would appreciate feedback on this specific area.
- I don't think many people get away from this on that flop
Mark
Folding an overpair is one of the things in poker that require the most discipline imo. It's not easy, but it has to be done!
I can fold overpairs
but not when I"m getting about a bajillion:1 on my money, and nobody has shown much strength behind me. I'm curious, what play precisely makes you assume AA / KK is out there (except maybe from the All in guy)?
Mark
I would have raised a little more preflop, at this point you really need to know if your beat or not, and if everyone folds, it was worth not getting into huge trouble. Maybe bet 11,000 or something.
Your right, most people don't get away, but they should (because its hard).
Just so you know, not trying to be mean or anything, just want to help
I think one has KK/AA because there are alot of ppl in the hand, so its more likely, the guy that went all in you cant stop that because he was behind you anyways, so no worries about that.
The fact that the guy called behind you it just seemed like something someone would do in a multiway pot with KK. Plus I'm sure at this point he didn't want to get all his chips/raise too much incase of a reshove all in and someone catching an ace in the community.
He knows he has the best hand, but he dosent want to go all in yet even with the best odds due to the number of players in the hand.
I totally go broke here then. I would think that that player is more likely to have a flush draw then Kings or Aces.
Near the bubble I might not gamble it, but once in the money (unless you are super close to a major jump in payouts) I push it.
I may have even pushed after the flop to try and take it down right there. (Who cares about the short stack that is all-in, the side pot is worth it on its own.)
But I didn't say he should fold. I said a smaller might have..but did I said he should fold? No.
Really? I would think someone with KK behind DrTyore in this spot will want to stick in a raise to isolate, and also to get rid of hands like Ax in that spot.
I agree, which is part of the reason why I would most likely go broke after the flop.
I lose my chips here. For those that said there are too many callers....to a smallish pre-flop raise??
That's why I hate posting the hand history for these "strategy" discussions. Too many people with the perfect play once they know the outcome of the hand.
I think you played it alright. You lost and you're okay with it.
P.S. It's not like you had JJ and was called by J5 and 67.
Thats why you shouldn't included the results at all...really...do results really matter in a hand discussion?