Automatic Call?

Full Tilt Poker, Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em

Seat 1: ermanorbay (1,710)
Seat 2: HDFatboysask (7,450)
Seat 6: HERO (3,650)
Seat 8: alphahibby (690)
HDFatboysask posts the small blind of 120
HERO posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #1

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Th 4h]
alphahibby raises to 690, and is all in
ermanorbay folds
HDFatboysask folds


You have to 450 to call into a pot that is 1050.

Is this an automatic call?

To give a little bit of history the pusher has folded his last 3 to 4 BB to minimum raises. He has also folded his button and SB alot. He is very tight and has blinded himself down from about 1500 to here. So you have to assume he has some sort of hand.

Do you fold and wait him out, as he is not defending his blinds?

Ideas?

Comments

  • Getting 2.33:1 and it costs 13.2% of your stack for the chance to knock him out. Minimum I would need to make this call is 2 cards.

    Fold and wait him out if you're playing for 3rd place.

    On first thought you'd think that since his blinds are so easy to steal that it keeps it from being an autocall... but if you think about it, the fact that his blinds are so easy to steal actually makes it more of a reason to call and try to knock him out. Because even if he doubles through, you can just steal it back :)

    /g2
  • Only if he has an overpair or holds a 10 or 4 are you not getting odds and even in that case, it doesn't look so ugly for you.

    Insta.
  • g2 wrote: »

    On first thought you'd think that since his blinds are so easy to steal that it keeps it from being an autocall... but if you think about it, the fact that his blinds are so easy to steal actually makes it more of a reason to call and try to knock him out. Because even if he doubles through, you can just steal it back :)

    /g2

    That was the thought that was running through my head, I can keep stealing and let some one else take the risk or call and go for it.

    This was as 50/50 as it gets for me.

    BTW the real trouble card for me was the 10. If it was 4h-5h is was an instant call no thought.
  • Further, I probably call this if I'm HDFatboysask with any two, even though my odds there aren't as attractive, because my stack is more than 10 times his and, unless I have the nuts or close to it, look to check it down if there are any overcallers.
  • BigChrisEl wrote: »
    BTW the real trouble card for me was the 10. If it was 4h-5h is was an instant call no thought. [/FONT][/COLOR]

    Although I suppose it has a better chance of being dominated, a 10 is a decent card for its relative high card strength. You're more of a favorite with T4s against a random hand than 54s.

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 46.530% 44.20% 02.33% 927212359 48798432.50 { Td4d }
    Hand 1: 53.470% 51.14% 02.33% 1072763176 48798432.50 { random }


    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 41.453% 38.53% 02.92% 808247748 61267756.50 { 5d4d }
    Hand 1: 58.547% 55.63% 02.92% 1166789139 61267756.50 { random }
  • BigChrisEl wrote: »

    BTW the real trouble card for me was the 10. If it was 4h-5h is was an instant call no thought.
    Run 104hh through pokerstove against what you think his range is here.

    Running it against a random hand doesn't apply in this case since you're pretty sure he has some kind of a hand.

    /g2
  • g2 wrote: »
    Running it against a random hand doesn't apply in this case since you're pretty sure he has some kind of a hand.

    True enough if his range as read by the OP wouldn't include connectors lower than 10. But the 10 shouldn't give pause in the situation even if it is more likely dominated than 54 would be. The odds are still there.
  • Spicol wrote: »
    Further, I probably call this if I'm HDFatboysask with any two, even though my odds there aren't as attractive, because my stack is more than 10 times his and, unless I have the nuts or close to it, look to check it down if there are any overcallers.


    Automatic call is HDFatboysask called.
  • One more thing to consider in this situation is, if I call and show 104hh how is it going to affect my image for the rest of this tourney?

    If you are stealing a lot then you probably don't want to show this hand, or it might lead to the other players being more defensive of their blinds.

    /g2
  • Ya call. Then berate HD for not helping.
  • -ev wrote: »
    Ya call. Then berate HD for not helping.
    LOL, yeah, really sucks when other players don't collude with you to knock out the shortstacks.

    /g2
  • g2 wrote: »
    LOL, yeah, really sucks when other players don't collude with you to knock out the shortstacks.

    /g2
    I suppose there is some side-benefit when your opponents don't know basic tournament theory, though.
  • -ev wrote: »
    I suppose there is some side-benefit when your opponents don't know basic tournament theory, though.
    Hmmm I wonder where that benefit could be.

    /g2
  • I was pretty sure it was an automatic call but want to see what people would think about it with the other factors of the player being tight and with the stealing of his blinds.

    Now if the whole table was tight because of the money bubble and you are stealing relentlessly do you fold so you can keep picking up the blinds?
  • BigChrisEl wrote: »
    Now if the whole table was tight because of the money bubble and you are stealing relentlessly do you fold so you can keep picking up the blinds?
    No, I couldn't sit back and let the would-be-bubble add more than 50% to his stack when it is such a small hit to my stack.

    On the bubble, it is a good thing to let people know you'll defend with garbage. I expect that makes them much less likely to want to tangle with you. Regardless of the outcome of the hand, make sure you say "Nobody messes with MY blind!"

    On the other hand, I think Sklansky wrote something a while back about folding a hand as good as QQ on the bubble to an all-in raise in order to keep the bubble going and allow yourself to continue stealing like crazy and building your stack. Perhaps someone recalls that concept?
  • -ev wrote: »

    On the other hand, I think Sklansky wrote something a while back about folding a hand as good as QQ on the bubble to an all-in raise in order to keep the bubble going and allow yourself to continue stealing like crazy and building your stack. Perhaps someone recalls that concept?


    That was what I was getting at.
  • -ev wrote: »
    On the bubble, it is a good thing to let people know you'll defend with garbage. I expect that makes them much less likely to want to tangle with you.
    Excellent point IMO.
    -ev wrote: »
    On the other hand, I think Sklansky wrote something a while back about folding a hand as good as QQ on the bubble to an all-in raise in order to keep the bubble going and allow yourself to continue stealing like crazy and building your stack. Perhaps someone recalls that concept?
    Haven't read Sklansky myself, but I'm pretty sure that only applies to MTTs, not SNGs.

    /g2
  • g2 wrote: »
    Haven't read Sklansky myself, but I'm pretty sure that only applies to MTTs, not SNGs.

    /g2
    It was in his Tournament for Advanced Players book. It covers the specific case where you are on the bubble in an MTT and he says it may make sense to fold something as good as QQ when you are the big stack bully and a short stack pushes in order to keep the bubble going and amass more chips for the final rush.

    Sort of a similar situation, however, the 1000 chips represents almost 30% of your stack and you are unlikely to accumulate that many by stealing before the bubble bursts. So go ahead and burst it yourself. With the added benefit that people are less likely to be trying to steal your blind if you lose.
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