what do you think he had?
the following occured at a 5/5 NL cash game
I was on the button with Q4 of spades... there was 4 limpers so i decided to limp. blinds complete and bb checks
flop is 3c5d6h everyone checks
turn is a 7c
SB checks
BB (new guy that just sat down) bets 35$
I raise to 70$ (probably should of done 100$), everyone else folds back to the BB
BB makes it 100$ more for me...
What would you do here?
at this point i was worried about 84 or 89 which would have me crushed... so I figured I would call the 100$ here and see what he does on the turn because if he had a 4 and the low-end of the straight he would probably slow down after I called..... so I called
and river is a 9d and he pushes for 400$ or so....
what would you do if you were me? more importantly what do you think he has???
I was on the button with Q4 of spades... there was 4 limpers so i decided to limp. blinds complete and bb checks
flop is 3c5d6h everyone checks
turn is a 7c
SB checks
BB (new guy that just sat down) bets 35$
I raise to 70$ (probably should of done 100$), everyone else folds back to the BB
BB makes it 100$ more for me...
What would you do here?
at this point i was worried about 84 or 89 which would have me crushed... so I figured I would call the 100$ here and see what he does on the turn because if he had a 4 and the low-end of the straight he would probably slow down after I called..... so I called
and river is a 9d and he pushes for 400$ or so....
what would you do if you were me? more importantly what do you think he has???
Comments
I wouldn't have raised here, you have the straight....he may possibly have it as well, because you have the dummy end its a scary board add the lack of information because of the "new guy" effect and it makes your decisions tougher.
I smooth call the 35...and watch what he does on the river...one of the things I have been trying to incorporate into my game is controlling pot size when I have too many unknowns but I have a decent hand.
Even if he pushes 400 on the river you figure you have 40 bucks invested..let him take it down....pick a better spot.
I'm confused. How did 4 limpers fold before it got back to the BB if you were on the button?
You didn't give stack sizes.
I hate the min. raise but I'm just not convinced that the nuts/2nd nuts goes crazy like that. (pot bet) Surely you had SOME read, did he strike you as borderline retarded and with an absolute hatred of making money? Gay river.
i was just simplyfying.... basically everyone folds except for me and the guy in the BB
he looked like a solid player in my books, not a wild crazy gambler or anything....
stack sizes were 600$ starting for me
and 500-550 or so for BB
(i dont really remember but it we were pretty even to begin with)
Stop playing Q4 (even if you do have the button) too many ways to get into trouble with a rag hand, and you found one in this spot.
What does he have? Almost anything here, no preflop raise from anyone. He is representing a straight.
i ended up mucking my 4 face up.... i thought it was a good laydown, everyone else didnt .. meh!
You play Q4s on the button after a bunch of limpers only if you are capable of getting away from a good hand, and you are able to take full advantage of your position (i.e. to bluff/semibluff and recognize when to).
Your turn raise (no matter the amount) means you're risking your entire stack to win $55 or so (minus rake, about $45!). If you raise, even the dumbest of players see a 4-card straight. A raise means precisely this: you're getting reraised by any hand that has you beat and any hand that is losing will fold, except for maybe a set.
The lesson: Plan your hand out around whether you want to commit your stack to it. Any more than 1/3 of your stack goes in = you're committed. Folding in big pots is terrible. Building big pots with marginal hands is just as bad. Avoid the guesswork by using your position to determine how big you want the pot.
on the the hand: you call the turn and you get to keep the pot small. You can easily fold in a small pot to a big bet on the river if any draws get there (i.e. the 9, the board pairs, the clubs get there, etc). If you're wrong, it's just a small pot.
You said the table freaked- do they know this guy? I presume some of them played him before and so their distaste for your fold combined with his muck facedown probably means you were at worst a chop.
Gamblor, your point is very well put and I do see what you are saying
-but I'm still not convinced the guy pots the nuts/2nd nuts-
I think if you're going to just call the turn (which is fine) you have to be able to narrow the range of bad cards on the river (he can't be on a bigger straight, flush AND FH draw, and it's too many cards to dodge) and be prepared to call close to pot again in their absence.(and maybe even bluff the assigned 'scare' cards, if any, based on what we narrow the opponent to)
That's the point. You don't know which cards are the actual cards that make his hand, which is why you keep the pot small and avoid the guesswork. Folding what MIGHT be the winning hand in a $100 pot is not catastrophic. Folding what might be the winning hand in a $800 pot is indeed catastrophic. Therefore, until we all learn to read hands like God, we have to CONTROL THE SIZE OF THE POT. We control the size of the pot to make our decisions easier. Folding everything but the stone cold nuts in a $100 pot is not nearly as bad as folding everything but the stone cold nuts in a $500 pot. That's my point.
When you read hands like an all-star, then you can start making those tough decisions. When you're not yet a winner in the $1billion-$2billion games, you can make your decisions easier by keeping the pot small, which lets you fold a potential winner without giving up too much money.