Shorthanded FL books
So, I've heard decent things about Stox's book (mainly via 2+2). Anybody here picked it up? Impressions?
That being said, I've perused his site and seen some hand discussions and am going to borrow one which I disagreed with.
(Paraphrasing hand):
Preflop:
UTG (unknown) raises, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Hero is button with AdJd and 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls 2 cold, UTG caps, Hero calls, BB calls (12.5 SB)
Flop:
AcJh6s
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero ?
Stox claims hand is strong enough to slow play and invite the BB to play.
While he may be correct, I have a lot of problems with this.
1) If we flat call we're giving BB 14.5:1 to call with gutshot hands like KQ, KT, QT, and even closing the action with something like a pair and BD str and flush draws with a hand like KJ, QJ, JT they may be correct in calling (even though they're dominated). If we raise we cut the odds to like 7.5:1 and BB doesn't close the action, so calling with just a gutshot is pretty thin there.
2) If we're going to slow-play we need to somehow gain more on future streets. Since UTG is apt to lead again, we're probably going to blow out the button (unless he improves) on the turn anyways. And hands which UTG might have that would give action on the flop (AK, AQ) more than likely aren't going to 3 bet the turn unless they improve (since it looks like a flopped monster). If UTG has a weaker hand that hates the A (KK, QQ, TT), it's possible they won't lead the turn (and even more unlikely they'll call a turn raise, although they "might" peel the flop for one more card) (or stubbornly call down in a big pot.
Stox argues that flat calling could potentially inspire UTG to try to CR the field on the turn which is likely the best scenario for us since we can bet/3 bet with the BB trapped in between. Although I just don't know how often UTG will try to CR with only one person behind and gutshots out there (even if he had a strong holding like AK or AQ).
I guess I figure the pot is big, we flopped a monster, and we more than likely get the most value by just playing it fast. If UTG has a smaller pair it's unlikely we'll get much more out of him anyways (unless he'll stubbornly calldown underpairs, which will happen frequently in big pots).
Only other benefit I can see to flat calling and inviting BB to play is if he has a weak ace or J he may peel and then get stuck to the pot if he pairs his kicker or makes trips (gotta love those reverse-implied odds when it's your opponents hitting their doom card). However, if BB is capable of calling 2 cold with a worse A or a Jx hand preflop, is he really going to fold the flop for 2 cold when he makes a pair? Probably not...
Thoughts?
That being said, I've perused his site and seen some hand discussions and am going to borrow one which I disagreed with.
(Paraphrasing hand):
Preflop:
UTG (unknown) raises, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Hero is button with AdJd and 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls 2 cold, UTG caps, Hero calls, BB calls (12.5 SB)
Flop:
AcJh6s
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero ?
Stox claims hand is strong enough to slow play and invite the BB to play.
While he may be correct, I have a lot of problems with this.
1) If we flat call we're giving BB 14.5:1 to call with gutshot hands like KQ, KT, QT, and even closing the action with something like a pair and BD str and flush draws with a hand like KJ, QJ, JT they may be correct in calling (even though they're dominated). If we raise we cut the odds to like 7.5:1 and BB doesn't close the action, so calling with just a gutshot is pretty thin there.
2) If we're going to slow-play we need to somehow gain more on future streets. Since UTG is apt to lead again, we're probably going to blow out the button (unless he improves) on the turn anyways. And hands which UTG might have that would give action on the flop (AK, AQ) more than likely aren't going to 3 bet the turn unless they improve (since it looks like a flopped monster). If UTG has a weaker hand that hates the A (KK, QQ, TT), it's possible they won't lead the turn (and even more unlikely they'll call a turn raise, although they "might" peel the flop for one more card) (or stubbornly call down in a big pot.
Stox argues that flat calling could potentially inspire UTG to try to CR the field on the turn which is likely the best scenario for us since we can bet/3 bet with the BB trapped in between. Although I just don't know how often UTG will try to CR with only one person behind and gutshots out there (even if he had a strong holding like AK or AQ).
I guess I figure the pot is big, we flopped a monster, and we more than likely get the most value by just playing it fast. If UTG has a smaller pair it's unlikely we'll get much more out of him anyways (unless he'll stubbornly calldown underpairs, which will happen frequently in big pots).
Only other benefit I can see to flat calling and inviting BB to play is if he has a weak ace or J he may peel and then get stuck to the pot if he pairs his kicker or makes trips (gotta love those reverse-implied odds when it's your opponents hitting their doom card). However, if BB is capable of calling 2 cold with a worse A or a Jx hand preflop, is he really going to fold the flop for 2 cold when he makes a pair? Probably not...
Thoughts?
Comments
Maybe, but at this point I'm pretty much showdown bound. Unless the turn is a scare card like a K or Q it's hard to assume we're not ahead unless we open up UTG's range to include 66 (unlikely). JJ or AA are so unlikely compared to AK or AQ that folding is out of the question.
An UTG raise, the range is wide. Cap, now the range tightens a fair bit, we can certainly chuck A6 from a possible holding. If he calls 2 cold on the flop, and then c/r the turn, especially if it is still 3 handed, he has a lock hand. Unlikely even an especially skilled player makes that move as a bluff or with a single pair, because if you have no read on him, he obviously has no read on you.
Well, assuming you raise he's only calling a single bet back to him. Whether or not the BB overcalls 2 IMO matters quite a bit (and yes I'd agree a read on both would be helpful, and a history of how you think they perceive your play would be good too).
Put yourself in UTG's shoes if you hold AK:
If raised do you 3 bet the flop? Maybe. Does a VERY aggressive player consider flat calling and CRing turn for value? Maybe. In fact simply calling down in this spot with TPTK feels pretty weak in a 6 max game IMO. Again, apologizing for lack of reads etc.
But in general, I think you see a lot of hyper aggressive players that are far more apt to either 3 bet the flop (frankly this is probably how I would play the hand myself if I had AK OOP), or would possibly try for a turn CR (as opposed to just calling down). I think the chances of turn CR headsup with a worse hand are much more likely than if the pot is 3 way by the turn. Only way I see a turn CR happening against 2 people (with the BB trapped in between is if UTG has AJ, JJ or AA (or turns top 2 or a set with AK, AQ, KK, QQ).
This is all assuming UTG plays semi-reasonably of course. By default, I guess we should err on the side of caution, but in general I would expect my opponents to play aggressively, which in general "should" widen their range for betting/raising CRing a bit.