Your input on a new concept please
We have developed a dealerless poker table here in Bradford Ontario.
http://www.fatdiamond.com
or
http://www.fatdiamond.net
I would like to hear your comments on putting these tables in local Pubs and Sports Bars with a system similar to pinball machines. You would be playing Texas Holdem in Ring Game format against the other people at the table on a Pay For Play basis. A Loonie would get you 10 times big blind with a max buy in of 100 time big blind. ($10.00) You would play as long as you have chips in your account with in and out privileges subject to seat availability. Good players might play for a month on a single buy in.
Chip leaders after a "play period" of say 1 month would receive a tournament entry with prizes being Chips to play in the next play period. (No shows to tournament would be blinded out and receive what ever chips their exit position would be entitled to.)
Connected to the table would also be a Draw. (No purchase required Website registration - one per draw) However each hand that you are in would register you for another chance, turning the odds in favor of those playing. The Draw prize might be something like a seat to a major Ontario based Casino tournament.
Question for discussion:
Would you play on such a table if it were available at your favorite Venue?
Would you be drawn to a local Venue it you knew it was there?
Would you prefer a licensed establishment or a Coffee house or Club House venue?
Let me know your thoughts. It would be greatly appreciated positive or negative.
Don
http://www.fatdiamond.com
or
http://www.fatdiamond.net
I would like to hear your comments on putting these tables in local Pubs and Sports Bars with a system similar to pinball machines. You would be playing Texas Holdem in Ring Game format against the other people at the table on a Pay For Play basis. A Loonie would get you 10 times big blind with a max buy in of 100 time big blind. ($10.00) You would play as long as you have chips in your account with in and out privileges subject to seat availability. Good players might play for a month on a single buy in.
Chip leaders after a "play period" of say 1 month would receive a tournament entry with prizes being Chips to play in the next play period. (No shows to tournament would be blinded out and receive what ever chips their exit position would be entitled to.)
Connected to the table would also be a Draw. (No purchase required Website registration - one per draw) However each hand that you are in would register you for another chance, turning the odds in favor of those playing. The Draw prize might be something like a seat to a major Ontario based Casino tournament.
Question for discussion:
Would you play on such a table if it were available at your favorite Venue?
Would you be drawn to a local Venue it you knew it was there?
Would you prefer a licensed establishment or a Coffee house or Club House venue?
Let me know your thoughts. It would be greatly appreciated positive or negative.
Don
Comments
Just my 2 cents.....
Don,
I'm going to be brutally honest with you.
I wish you no ill and I hope you succeed but what goes through my mind is...
What does it payout? (besides the draw)
If it doesn't pay then it has all the appeal of ... play money (none).
I have a few million in play money.... if anyone wants it... I can't give it away.
It sound like a negative expected value. -$1
I would not play -ev games in my favorite Venue.
I would not be drawn to a -ev game.
So there is no payout?
I think there is more of a future in this concept in a casino/playing for credits environment (although without a dealer to vent your frustrations towards, there would probably be fisticuffs quite regularly).
I could see dropping a few bucks in if I was with friends, maybe.. but it just seems like something's missing... it's a lot less social than real poker, and with no clear goal.
I knew they'd eventually take the dealer out of the equation somehow though.. this is a start. You could probably run these in a casino with ultra low limits and rake it in huge.
The laws in Canada will not allow gaming in anything other than a regulated Gaming Venue. To be considered gaming it must be wager (pay-in) and win (prize). Most of what you see in bars today are the likes of Red Hot and Kings Poker Tours. Free play with prizes being offered to the high score after a period. The bars pay the host company to put these tours on.
We are having you pay to play so the bar owner is not out any money. It will cost a couple of bucks to play for as long as you have chips. That could be weeks if you are good. From the revenue we can then build in prizes but the prizes can not be for winning. That would be gaming. We can however have a draw that stacks the odds in favour of the best and most active players. It is however just a form of entertainment only. There is no win.
It would be similar to what the Scorepoker site is doing. Here you would be playing live as in any casino against the others at the table. The other players can see your screen but you “down cards” are hidden under a flap just as if they were on a table. You lift your flap protecting as you would your face down cards at a casino to view them. Betting is the same as internet play. Buttons are presented for your action. You touch the screen to indicate you choice.
This is still in the planning stage and there are a couple of venues that are considering this in Toronto.
Thanks again for your input.
No it would not attract me to that bar.
Good luck!
Also I think the size is large and it is an unusal shape, I think most bars would want to put a machine like this into a corner (like the golf games) instead this looks like it will take up a large amount of space in the room which could be used to fit another table that serves food and drink.
Well if it doesn't work for NTN why would it work for this is my point.
BTW I have never seen any one playing the NTN poker.
No. One idea is to partner with one of the bar poker tours or a major chain (e.g., Pegasus) that hosts these free tournaments. In the highly regulated Canadian market, I think your target market are these bar players who don't mind spending money to play poker despite no chance of winning cash. Other poker players would much rather gamble to win cash instead of paying for play chips or a draw.
What I would like to do is start my own Poker Bar in contrast to a Bar with a poker table. The gambling issue is a strong one. I know people here are real money players as am I. However a large group out there likes to play for fun and title. They ae drawn to the likes of Red Hot etc. There is a real sense of club with these people.
NTN is not the same as being around a table playing face to face with the advisaries. Nor is the Internet.
The bars that I have spoken to are tiring of the cost of these free tours and the fact that most of the players don't purchase much. Some are touching the grey area by giving a 500 play chip if you purchase food or beverage. A bar I envision is one where "Poker is spoken Here" is the mantra. Ring game only would be played to lessen the chance of side bets. Tournaments would be end of "season" for chip leaders only to win free play for the next "season". House champions and Chip leaders would be recognized with Postings. There is a need to have accomplished something for playing well. It just can not be monitory.
If there are Ideas or Suggestions they would be welcomed.
The table now has a Kiosk for registration. The potential player registers and purchases thier "Play Stake" at 10 times big blind for a $1.00 / Max. 100 times big blind ($10.00). They can now play as long as they have chips. The player has In & Out privilages by simply checking out (leaving the table) and Checking in (when there is a seat available) next day or next week. The bar would get a cut of the revenue just as they do with the pinball and video games.
Hope that make it clearer.
The other incentive is to be a chip leader to gain addition play stake and continued play without paying.
Leader boards and trophy will recognize status at the club.
Ideas are welcome.