The "Black" (NLHE Tourneys)

sweetjimmisweetjimmi
in General Poker Chat
I have been putting some more thought into this lately. I have generally kept my "black" (all-in or fold preflop) in the 6 - 10 BB range.

My thought process may be driven by seeing some result oriented comebacks but I seem to be noticing many players really hold on right down to the wire taking their stacks to the 3 BB range before hitting their "black".

Does anyone think this is justified?

What is your "Black"?

Comments

  • actyperactyper
    I prefer the higher range of it, 10BB. 3BB is weak.
  • ZithalZithal
    At 3BB, you have an M of 2, meaning if you pushed, get called an double up, you've bought yourself just over 2 orbits before you're in the same position again.

    If you have 6-10BB, you have an M of 4.5-7.5, meaning a push, call, double-up gives you 5-8 orbits (not counting blinds going up, of course) before your back in the same situation.

    I think there are other added benefits; at 6-10BB you have greater fold equity on a push, whereas pushing with 3BB should almost guarantee you a call.
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    M <= 5. Standard based on all the reasons above and below.
  • sweetjimmisweetjimmi
    What about when the average stack drops below 10 BB? Does this change anything?
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    sweetjimmi wrote: »
    What about when the average stack drops below 10 BB? Does this change anything?

    You mean like at the beginning of a tournament? I don't play alot of tourneys where the AVERAGE stack going to 4 or 5 tables is still 10bb or less. Even the friendly SNG's, after the first couple of levels, you're going to have Big Stacks and Little Stacks. The key is to remember where you're at at all times.

    10BB would be my personal black. I can push and have enough chips to give the other players pause for thought, or throw away a better hand. If I get called, and double up, I'm back in yellow or maybe green for abit again.
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    Push earlier than later, people are so awful at pushbotting and even worse at defending it (you wouldn't put your tournament life on the line without a monster! I fold!)
  • beach2002beach2002
    This is probably a very poker 101 question but what is an "M" ?

    thanks
    labeach2002
  • g2g2
    M = cost per round (i.e. small + big blind + antes if applicable)

    /g2
  • BlondeFishBlondeFish
    If you are in the Red Zone but you have an above average stack (i.e., "Q" > 1), then you can play a little more conservatively. It would still be all-in or fold for me, but I can afford to wait for a better hand or position, especially if the potential callers have bigger stacks and can eliminate me.

    At the final table of the Casino Brantford Spring Classic after 2 AM, we were all in the Red Zone and the money finishes would be determined mostly by luck. With the CPR at 16,000 chips, the only move being done was all-in or fold, except for one player who would make a standard raise even though he would be pot committed anyway. The short stacks with M < 3 going all-in would usually be called by the big blind or other bigger stack.
    sweetjimmi wrote: »
    What about when the average stack drops below 10 BB? Does this change anything?
  • m_dolensm_dolens
    for MTTs i definitely look to push when i get down to 10BB or so. i even like to consider a little higher like 15BB. i want enough chips as to make a double up worth it (ie. i'm no longer in the red). also, i want enough chips to make the other players think about a call as opposed to an auto call.
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