local cash game help
Hi Dave
We have a local game that has gotten pretty big. On any given play night there is between $2000 and $6000 on the table. The blinds are .50 & 1.00, but it is unusuall to be able to limp in. This is what the blinds where originally set at and they have never been changed. Most players are very loose -aggresive (if I raise to $10 pre-flop holding XX I WILL get 3 callers minimum in an 11 man game). My question is how to play against these types of players. I know to make them pay for there draws but how much? If they are on a draw (straight, flush, second pair) and I have top pair top kicker or two pair they usually will not fold unless I push all-in. I know I shouldnt be complaining about this because people beg for these types of games, but got hurts when I getting sucked out. Should I just keep making the pot size bets to make them pay for there draws or should I maybe be making a bit smaller bets......2/3 or 1/2 the pot because I kmow that I'm getting called anyways. Actually I think I just realized it doesn't matter what I bet as long as I'm consistant with those bets for the long hall.
On average I make about $250, but I want to be able to double that, any suggestions?
Thanks
Wade Graham
We have a local game that has gotten pretty big. On any given play night there is between $2000 and $6000 on the table. The blinds are .50 & 1.00, but it is unusuall to be able to limp in. This is what the blinds where originally set at and they have never been changed. Most players are very loose -aggresive (if I raise to $10 pre-flop holding XX I WILL get 3 callers minimum in an 11 man game). My question is how to play against these types of players. I know to make them pay for there draws but how much? If they are on a draw (straight, flush, second pair) and I have top pair top kicker or two pair they usually will not fold unless I push all-in. I know I shouldnt be complaining about this because people beg for these types of games, but got hurts when I getting sucked out. Should I just keep making the pot size bets to make them pay for there draws or should I maybe be making a bit smaller bets......2/3 or 1/2 the pot because I kmow that I'm getting called anyways. Actually I think I just realized it doesn't matter what I bet as long as I'm consistant with those bets for the long hall.
On average I make about $250, but I want to be able to double that, any suggestions?
Thanks
Wade Graham
Comments
still multiway and you get a caller, then everyone after the first caller is getting reasonable odds to draw. In this case you probably want to overbet the pot when you flop top two, to shut out the draws. All-in is a fine move,
but twice the pot is probably enough. If they hang around for that then they will lose a lot in the long run.
This can be done in one of two ways:
1. By betting so much now that your opponent would not have the implied odds to call even assuming you are going to call off all of your chips if he appears to have completed the draw.
OR
2. By being able to fold when he completes the draw.
In case #1, the amount you need to bet to make calling with a draw incorrect depends on how deep the money is.
In case #2, you simply bet enough so that your opponent isn't getting the right *pot* odds (which equal the implied odds in this particular case) to call. A pot-sized bet offers the opponent 2-1 to call, easily making any (standard) draw incorrect take of one card.
Obviously in reality, there is a mixture of cases #1 and #2 going on, even forgetting about the fact that your read that your opponent is on a draw might not be accurate. The exact amount to bet in order to make your opponent play incorrectly is, in general, going to be tough to pin down.
ScottyZ
I play with a player who almost always plays the draw no matter how much money goes into the pot. I love and hate this player at the same time.
If you have a hand against this sort of player and you read him as being on a draw (and are fairly confident with your read), is there something wrong with simply moving all-in?
I can understand the first part.
ScottyZ
I almost always do (unless I am on a draw my self
He's not a bad player (not great, but not bad), he just loves the drawing hands as a result I just have been knock out of a few tournament by his draws because he is so unafraid to play draw, even when I went in with the best hand (2 pair, a set). In tourney play now, I will not commit everything i have against him unless I know he is probably drawing thin (flush draw where I have 1 or 2 or to of the cards in question), I have a much better re-draw, or I have him so covered in chips that it will not cripple me to play him. I do not hate him, he just frustrates me sometimes, LOL. :rolleyes:
Yes I do know that this post is about cash games and not tourneys.
I love playing cash games with this fella (I get paid off more often than not), just not tourneys thats where the love/hate comes in.
Sorry for any confusion. :redface:
Timeout. Nothing I said in my previous post necessarily applies to tournaments.
Now I hear ya.
ScottyZ
Nonetheless, here are some of my thoughts from this thread.
I have not played big bet poker in Alberta for a long time, but the games that I have played in have been as tough as anywhere I have played in the world. Alberta is tough big-bet poker land.
What are the these loose limpers doing calling? That are playing implied odds hands. So, as ScottyZ has eluded to you have to take away that play from them. There is little you can do pre-flop. Making such a big bet that the implied odds monkeys all fold is too big a bet. Soon you will be winning $1 or losing a bundle becuase you will only get actions from strong hands.
So... pre-flop I suggest a basic, tight and aggressive strategy.
On the flop, same thing. Doesn't seem a game where the naked bluff will be too successful. So, bet with the best, good draw to invest, fold all the rest. How much to bet? On of the problems with betting so much that you take away the implied odds call is that you are, in effect, playing into their hands. Suppose you bet your A-A into the flop. You don't want any "goofy" draws so you bet big. Well, if someone has already flopped a set he is really gong to take you to the cleaners which is what he hoped in the first place. You are in the delicious world of big bet poker. Bet enough to "get the job done" and no more than that. Of course, identifying the what job you are trying to accomplish is critical.
One thought on jammin all-in against a player who you KNOW will call with a draw... wait until the turn to do it. Suppose you know that Ed will ALWAYS call with a flush draw. Why even bet the flop? He will call. And, if he hits the turn then he will win and you will lose those flop chips. Against some "draw monkeys" you want to wait until the turn. Their odds get A LOT worse and yet they will still call for all their chips.
Last night we started playing at 8:30pm and ended at 5:00am. At the start of the game the maximum pre-flop raise was about $15. I was in for $200 and down to my last $100 (I never take my wallet and only $300 cash.....just something I've always done). I find a pair of 10's and and re-raise a $5 bet to $15. Miracle flop 8-8-10. There are 4 callers preflop, I check some one bets out, long story short I go all-in for about 95 more, get 3 callers, and take the hand down (TSN turning point). About an hour later I take down another huge hand with a puppy toes flush. This is when the game gets crazy. A regular player that has been drinking quite a bit (as usuall) and goes on turbo tilt. It starts off with $15 in the smoke (blind bet before cards are delt) which in turn makes some decent size pots. The blind bets start getting bigger and bigger until he's going $100 blind at times and a $100 to go after the flop. In the end he drops at least $3000 and his girlfriend (also drunk) about $800-$1000.
This is what I mean by extremely loose aggresive. Last night was the craziest I've ever seen it. I just sat back and waited for premiums and then called or re-raised. I ended up chipping out at $2365 so I cleared $2065, a HUGE night for me.
Wader
HOLY FCUK!
Good for you dude, that is awesome!!
Address please.....................................
And where can I crash when I get to Edmonton? :cool:
There's this buzzing alarm sound in my head, and my "too good to be true" light is flashing.
ScottyZ
Well......I guess if your JUST passing through :banghead: it's near Dave's stomping grounds in a small city called Lloydminster. As far as accommodations I'm sure you will have enough to put a down payment on a house for the next time your through.
My regular home games have 5 or 6 guys that play very similar to what your describing...
I suggest doing what you did the last night. Play super tight premiums only and get out when you don't feel good on a hand..
1 or 2 hands will pay for your entire nights profit.. If you get a 3 hand rush like happens every now and again it'll be very profitable and should up your nightly win %
My 2 Cents