Time to Push, but when ...
I was three handed in a 6 player sit-n-go sitting in the big blind. My stack was about 3000. Blinds were 150-300. Button folds, small blind raises to 800. Small blind is the big stack at the table with approximately half the chips in play - around 12000, and an agressive player. I look down to see pocket 10s.
Do you push here or flat call and then push on the flop? Are you looking to double up or is a 25% increase in your stack good enough? Are you willing to be at the mercy of the coin flip if you get a call, or would you rather another chance to bet?
I will post what I did and the result later.
Do you push here or flat call and then push on the flop? Are you looking to double up or is a 25% increase in your stack good enough? Are you willing to be at the mercy of the coin flip if you get a call, or would you rather another chance to bet?
I will post what I did and the result later.
Comments
For example you said the Big stack is aggressive, say he's raising with a naked ace. An ace hits the flop what do you do fold?
I think you should just push pre-flop maybe cause your a medium stack your raises will not be known for blind stealing.
Just my opinion...
You'd have to be pretty lucky to get a flop for tens that doesn't have atleast one overcard.
With the size of his stack he is likely to c-bet any flop at all and most will have overcards. You probably won't know where you are at all with the hand but you are going to put your chips in anyway. If you want to gamble at least put the math in your favour and get your chips in while you still have some fold equity.
If his range is any Ace, any pair, any 2 cards down to Q8off-suit you are only 2-1 favourite here if you go to showdown.
Get your chips in now while you are likely ahead and he may fold and let you scoop the pot with your medium pair. Plus you get the added bonus of sending the message for him not to fuck with your Big Blind.
Right. You'll just let villian make top pair against you and that way, you won't have to worry about coin-flips.
So what you are suggesting here is that you expect the villian to fold when I push - meaning I would win the original 800 raise and not hope to double up.
You left out the most benificial, and if it looks like the Big Stack is blind stealing (ie if he has done this same move that last few rounds), the most likely situation, the BB calls you when he should of folded, when you are ahead. Even if he is behind he may risk it, just because it looks like you are restealing, and some people will jump at the opportunity to knock 3rd place out, to have a dominent chip lead over 2nd headsup.
I'm going to guess by your reaction to peoples suggestions that pushing preflop is obvious, that you called, and pushed on flop. And since we tend to have a lot of disguised Bad Beat posts here, maybe he had two over cards q-j, or K-J, and he hit one of the cards.... I'll guess the K.
So what happened?
It turned out that the SB had A-K, so it was a legitimate raise. The flop came jack high, no ten. There is no guarantee that the SB wouldn't have gone all-in before I got a chance, nor is there a guarantee that if I had pushed post-flop that he wouldn't call anyway. However, at least at that point he would have been doing it without the odds.
Of course an ace came on the river. I don't think that pushing was the wrong move necessarily, but I don't think it is the only reasonable play here. If the goal is to double-up then I would have to push pre-flop, but if the goal is to have the best chance to win the original raise, I think that stop and go should have been considered.
Ah-hA! It was a disguised bad beat post!
I think perhaps you are granting the cards that actually came a little too much weight. You are right, that in this case, had you called and gone all in on the flop he may have folded... but I think it owuld be wiser to make the play that gives you the best shot in MOST cases.
Remember you won't always be heads up, if he makes the same play, and you are next to act, and you call, the 3rd player may also call, so now you have to hope 2 players don't hit the flop when you go all-in. AND pushing all in preflop will work to give you the best chance at facing only 1 player, or winning the hand preflop.
Pocket tens are a medium pair, so sure they are a great hand , 3 handed; but they are so very susceptable to over cards on the flop. You're best bet against the big stack is to hope he calls with a weaker hand, or a coin flip, and you win the race, or he folds (but it isn't likely to push him off of a hand when he has you dominated chipwise). You can try the tricky, stop and go move against the other small stack at the table, he is probably more likely to let go of a hand that misses the flop.
No I was not considering this to be a bad beat. I recognized as soon as I got the call that I was probably in a race and was just hoping to win it. It was one of those situtations where I made a decision without thinking about alternatives and thought I would put it out there for discussion.
I'm not looking at this particular situation, but rather the situation in more general terms. I do believe that if I am ahead pre-flop, my opponent in general will miss the flop more often than hit the flop. Even if he does hit the flop, I am no worse off than putting all my chips in pre-flop and getting a call in this situation.
I was looking at this situation in particular where I was guaranteed to be heads up. I was pretty sure that I would get a call of my all-in from this particular player this particular time.
I agree with almost everything you said. I think in the end I am more concerned about the fact that I didn't really consider a different course of action at the time. I felt that I had to push and didn't even consider that winning the raise amount would have been sufficient.
However in the end, as I mentioned before, it may not have made any difference because all the chips may have gone in after the flop in any case.
Time to push is ... As Soon As Possible.
Except your not in position to pull a stop and go. Are you committed to calling allin on every flop, or are you finding folds on certain flops? Considering your chip stack I don't really like folding on any flop considering your opponent hasn't said much about his hand (raising in a steal position).
you got to push and hope he calls . it is probablly as far ahead as you are going to be. if he folds fine. you win the pot. if he calls with i would say one over and one under you are far enough ahead and in a positon to win not just hang on. your gonna have to get your chips in sooner or later so why not do it with a top ten hand.
I think there's a bit of a contradiction..you are saying both that you don't want to risk your tournament life, and implying that you at least 'hope' to double up.
It's an insta-shove I think.