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getting the right odds?

ChuckielandChuckieland
in Online Poker
I just have this thing about odds.
1st. online player, alot of player would go all in with top pair and not even top kicker.
2nd. active table with loose players...lots action, chip stacked are flying from end to end.
Blind is 50/100 981 player MTT. 580 left
Hero has KK in mid position with 5800.
pot is raise 3X by UTG, and two caller to me.
I reraise to 1200, the blinds folded, UTG and two caller both called.
4950 in the pot.
Flop Q 8 7 with two spade
UTG went all in (he has me cover), two caller folded. to me.
I have KK the pot odds is offer me 2. -1.
I didn't think he has AA
regardless i win or lose, this pot offer me the right odds to call?
had this been a normal game, i would lay this down. UTG is more likely to have AA or a set, UTG is loose player. he is capable of do this with KQ or QJ, I believe he would of push with QT or Q9.

Comments

  • BBC ZBBC Z
    had this been a normal game, i would lay this down

    Try and fit that logic into what you said before:
    1st. online player, alot of player would go all in with top pair and not even top kicker.
    2nd. active table with loose players...lots action, chip stacked are flying from end to end.

    So.. you are watching people show down crap and overplay hands but you want to fold?
    a normal game

    There's no such thing as a normal game. They all vary based on the players sitting at the table. You may just be used to tight passivity, but thats far from normal.


    EDIT: You got me. This is just a bad beat post. You called, he made some two pair yadda yadda yadda.
  • ChuckielandChuckieland
    BBC Z wrote: »
    Try and fit that logic into what you said before:



    So.. you are watching people show down crap and overplay hands but you want to fold?



    There's no such thing as a normal game. They all vary based on the players sitting at the table. You may just be used to tight passivity, but thats far from normal.


    EDIT: You got me. This is just a bad beat post. You called, he made some two pair yadda yadda yadda.
    no no
    i won that hand
    he has J10 of Spade (pushing his gut shot str8 and flush draw)
    but this is very marginal situation
    i am just wondering, if 2-1 pot odds with KK is a right decision for a call or am i just gambling with bad odds here.
    Now for Bad beat story
    ....
    l......
    ........
    that sux man.......
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    you have the best hand here like every time why are you worried about pot odds.
  • BlondeFishBlondeFish
    Your pot odds are 9550:4600 or 2.1:1. The pot is offering you the "right odds to call" as long as you think that your chances of winning is better than 2.1:1, or only 32.5%. Unless you think that there is a very high likelihood that UTG has a set or AA, then it is correct to call with your overpair.

    Even if you think that you are a 40% underdog with KK, you will profit in the long run by calling. Against Jc-Tc, you are a 53% favourite, which is higher than the 32.5% breakeven point, so folding would have been a bad decision.
    Chuckieland wrote: »
    Hero has KK in mid position with 5800.
    4950 in the pot.
    Flop Q 8 7 with two spade
    UTG went all in (he has me cover), two caller folded. to me.
    I have KK the pot odds is offer me 2. -1.
    I didn't think he has AA
    regardless i win or lose, this pot offer me the right odds to call?
    had this been a normal game, i would lay this down. UTG is more likely to have AA or a set, UTG is loose player. he is capable of do this with KQ or QJ, I believe he would of push with QT or Q9.
  • ChuckielandChuckieland
    SirWatts wrote: »
    you have the best hand here like every time why are you worried about pot odds.
    with J10 i have the best hand
    but i could be up with monster, set or two pair or AA.
    i just wondering if the odds are good enough.
  • g2g2
    To figure out "if the odds are good enough" you need to define a range of hands your opponent may have (and probabilities associated with them if you want to get complicated). Then pokerstove it.

    /g2
  • specialKspecialK
    Chuckieland wrote: »
    with J10 i have the best hand
    but i could be up with monster, set or two pair or AA.
    i just wondering if the odds are good enough.

    if you think you are drawing then, no, the odds aren't good enough. but as said before you have the best hand almost always in this spot.
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    Chuckieland wrote: »
    with J10 i have the best hand
    but i could be up with monster, set or two pair or AA.
    i just wondering if the odds are good enough.

    It is extremely unlikelyy he has any of these hands, don't look for monsters under the bed.
  • MonteroyMonteroy
    The problem here is you are basically presenting a situation that can best be described as the following simple formula


    10 + x = y

    with 10 being the "pot odds"

    For this situation that is not really enough as you need to define one of the other two variables in order to solve the mystery. In this case assigning a hand range for the opponent based on how they have played would help fill that gap.

    Your KK is either way ahead or way behind. Also, this is a tournament where winning the hand would help your stack quite a bit but losing it means you are out and your stack is not in any trouble yet. By this I mean you might make a play easily (all in shove) with a small stack or vs a small stack that you may not here.

    Realistically, assuming this is a small buy in tournament then shove away, but using only pot odds in this situation is a bit limiting.
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