How does the skill level on the play tables compare to money tables
I've been playing on pokerstars and it took a while to find my game but I've evolved into a pretty decent sit n go player on the play money tables. I play the 50K and 80K tables and over the last month I've made it to the money over 80% of the time (an thats still climbing) so I think I'd like to try playing money. I'm just curious how people would rate the skill level of these games? Will I get my arse handed to me on the money tables?
Comments
In all seriousness, how you do on play money tables is no test of your ability on real money tables. TOTALLY different game... Start off at the lowest levels, play tight, don't chase without decent odds, etc, etc.. and you can then start your learning process all over again....
Interesting. I spent some time watching the low dollar buy in tables last night and most of the players do not appear to be in the same league as the better players at the $50-$80K play tables. I'm going to watch a few more games but from what I've seen so far my confidence has been bolstered huge. I hope what I've seen so far is typical.
Couldn't agree more.
Do you go out to dinner to eat once? Do you buy a video game? Don't do that one month, put that cash into stars and just play. Theres no reason not to. They offer ultra low limits so theres hardy any risk of ruin if you have a head on your shoulders.
Your advice is good and the point is taken although I rarely ever eat out, I never buy vid games nor do I drink, smoke or eat junk food. I also don't waste money on lottery tickets or gamble. That said I have been hooked on holdem since learning the game and have been working very hard to be a strong player. So I took the free $5 that wingows.com is offering right now and used it to play some low stakes sit-n-goes. Nor much data so far but to answer my original question the skill level of the players in the small games, at least on wingows, is certainly no better then players on the 50,000 & 80,000 play money buy in sit-n-goes on pokerstars. In fact so far I would say they are not even the same league. I've played 4 games and won 1 and placed in another, ended 1 shy of money in the 3rd and took a bad beat on a AA/JJJ on the 4th. So far this isn't looking like gambling. Time will tell the tale though.
hehehe... another one on the line, boys! Get the net!!
Seriously, you're small run is too small to gauge anything by yet. The advise so far on this thread is sound. Don't let a few victories overwhelm you, you WILL hit a slide.
Note, this could come in a couple of forms, one being that you believe yourself to be better then you are and push it further then you should and the second one being that you never allow yourself to play at any level of significance for fear of losing a quarter, and you play based on that fear.
Basically, if you just enjoy the game itself then play it for play money, toothpicks whatever and enjoy it. While there will be some players at the play money tables who try to play for real , many will just be fooling around and will not be indicative of real money play.
Someone who has both the patience and desire to grind their $2000 play money stake up to the point that they are rolled to play $80,000 SNG's is probably no different in skill level than someone who plays $1 real money SNG's.
But don't ever kid yourself. Poker is gambling.
well that was actually my thought process and the reason for my original post.
I have made and kept a bankroll of over a million and have won many millions. Playing sit-n-goes I have game and have a relatively long consistent run of hitting the money to back my beliefs. (I only learnt how to play 2.5 months ago) I then wander off to the open tables and lose the money as I find that I have a tough time playing against a table of mostly unskilled players. So far my experience has been that the better the skill level of my opponent the better my game is.
As much as I win in sit-n-goes I lose in open tables. Lost 1.5 million in a day a couple of weeks ago. Went back to sit-n-goes with the 1500 that pokerstars start you with and had a mil back in a week.
Iniatially my intention was to wait till my bankroll hit 20 mil and then sell that off to one of the cash 4 play money sites and use the money to start playing entry level cash games. The reason I'm skipping ahead is that I'm not being challenged at the play money tables much anymore. This means my learning curve has slowed down and I want to get back on track. At this stage mastering the game is more important to me then winning.
I am fully aware that I have much to learn. Up to this point I'm playing an average 3 hours a day during the week and 8.5 hours on the weekend but you can add another 16-20 hours a week for reading stradegy guides/books/blogs and watching televised games.
I do enjoy the game and for the most part I am fearless. It' never been fear that has kept me from gambling. I just see little point. Gambling at most games and buying lottery tickets is no different then driving down the road and throwing money out the window. Every now and then the wind will blow some of it back into the car but over all it is fruitless. I see no logic at all in risking money if the odds cannot be tilted in my favor.
The reason for moving onto the money tables is that the amount I'm learning on the free tables has fallen off significantly in the last weeks and I want to get back on track. I don't care if I make money at this point, I just don't want to lose much. I've been a world ranked player on several online games and I see this as no different. Discipline, a plan and time behind the keyboard and the rest will come... at least it always has so far.
Use www.pokersourceonline.com as a means to sign up for it as they have the best sign up offers for now on Stars (and if you are inclined enter Perplex in the referred by area :P ). I am pretty sure you can still sign up through them if you have never made a real momney deposit in your Stars account, though you may want to email support@pokerstars.com to be sure (they answer email questions very quickly).
Experiment with different types of games because you never know what you may find that suits your tastes (I did Sit and Gos only for a while a few years ago, now I play pretty much Omaha only).
Ideally you will use Pokertracker to track your results (if that's in the budget plan). Also Pokergrapher will provide you with a good chart history of your performace over time (this program is free).
Expect variance regardless of the game you play, even extreme variance at times. At Omaha (higher variance granted) I have seen some tilt filled maniacs drop 10 full buy-ins in under an hour, and while most of the table benefits there is usually 1 or 2 people that the maniac crushes along the way, usually by suckouts.
Invest in a couple books, Skalansky (if I spelled it correctly) book has a lot of sound theories as does Lee Jones small stakes book, though both may be a little dated by now as the games in general have become more aggressive, even at smaller stakes.
The play money tables are good at learning how to use the software and figuring out the basics of the games, but beyond that they will actually not help much in learning to play the competitive game, and in fact may very well hurt the eventual real life game because some plays such as isolating an opponent even when you know you are behind (to increase your overall odds of winning the hand by eliminating extra opponents) simply does not work at play money tables since people fold a LOT less with nothing at stake.
Last, do not fall victim to believing you are gifted even if you are at this game. That type of thinking leads to some pretty awful play from those who eventually come to expect that the world should be handed to them.
Hope this helps a bit.
Good god, leave your parent's basement and start living..
excellent post. Thank you very much for the advice and pointers.
lol yeah ok, I'll do that.
If you own investment properties < I am noting the plural. Then blow the dust off of your wallet and put a couple of hundo on line and roll the dice.
For the love of God man don't be such a nit!
that was what I originally planned on. As soon as I hit 20 mil I was going to cash it in. I'd be close if I just stayed off the open tables.
Last night I made the mistake of playing when I was tired and watching the season finale to Lost which couldn't be more appropriate because I lost most of my cash bankroll. Lesson learnt.
If you play on pokerstars you can play .25-$1.00 tourneys I believe 3-7 times a day. It seems you love the game and aren't THAT worried about money. These are great tourney's to sharpen your MTT skills. And for such a small investment it's actually not that bad once you hit about 20 people to the bubble. (Ask Moose...haha!)
Anyway, goodluck. Enjoy the roller coaster and heartbreak...
Cheers!
Then I bought into a $1 tourney and won it. Now I can buy haddon's respect.
Haha!
lol, I like that. So I'm a pro play money player
On the play money games people don't care and will put their money all-in on draws or top pair no kicker. Pushing 1500 pre-flop with AK suited and getting call by pocket 2's when the blinds are 10-20 is the norm.
In real money people play a little tighter and fear creeps into their game. Top pair no kicker is no longer an all-in hand, draws becomes risks. Players play a little tighter and now because you actually care about winning you may not take the same risks that you would on the play money table. Pushing 1500 pre-flop with AK suited is not the best play and no one with any intelligence would call with pocket 2's when the blinds are 10-20.
If you can destroy the play money games you should be able to beat the micro-limit real money games, it just won't be as easy.
I knew from chats that many of the people on the top play tables were also money players so I guess I just assumed most money players came though that way and hence my original post. So far I'm getting the impression that pretty much nobody that has responded has ever played on the 80,000 play tables and are for the most part making assumptions about the skill level.
My new short term goal now is to build a decent bankroll without depositing any cash. So far that is on track. For me this is all about patience & discipline and increasing my skill level. I look forward to earning the skills to step up from the micro limits. Biulding a bankroll with out contributing any cash of my own is the yardstick I'm using to measure that progress.I would not bother switching over to money games at all if all my goals could be met at the play money level.
I'm looking forward to this next phase