What would you say to this person?
If you believe in God, msn me and explain to me why he continually causes so much bullshit in my life.
Any thoughts are appreciated. I have some thoughts, but am interested in a world view to present with my thoughts.
Prophet 22
Any thoughts are appreciated. I have some thoughts, but am interested in a world view to present with my thoughts.
Prophet 22
Comments
BUT...
Do unto others...
or maybe Mark goes to Church.
Maybe a sample size of 2 is a little tiny, but I prefer to think that me and JC are pretty tight.
Mark
Ready to suit up Mark? Love ya Nik!
Your thoughts are always welcomed.
Strange Mark with nothing to say
If you aren't interested in posting, PM I would be happy to hear what you have to say.
Prophet 22
thanks for the email. I will respond maybe sunday, busy weekend ahead.
Prophet 22
My stance is pretty much this...(It is in point form because I am tired.)
-If there is a "God" s/he tests more people more than others.
-This "God" also must enjoy throwing curve balls more than Mordecai “Three Finger” Brown did.
-This "God" never gave me anything but 'bad beats' and 'cold cards' (that is a joke...I am not talking poker...in poker I am lucky!
-I had to work hard and suffer and hurt and sweat and cry and kick and scream to even survive for my whole life. Why? Not 'why me?' because I know people have it worse...just why.
-This is far fetched...but if "God" IS perfect, why does he create imperfect, malicious and horrible people? And why isn't he anal enough to use his 'powers' and 'superhuman love' or whatever it is, to stop the madness and heartbreak in the world?
-If 'God' is 'carrying me' in my hard times, through the 'sand', why not save his time for good, and did he not make my life easier...s/he could have saved time.
Bottomline, I got one or two breaks in the last 21.2 years...everything else was a fucking grind. I made my life and worked harder than most, if not everyone I know. Maybe got doesn't help those who can help themselves, but I sure could have used a few good breaks...
Anyway, I'm tired and running the club, I hope this made sense.
Haddon.
If you read the OP, I said I wanted a world view. I welcome your thoughts.
Haddon, I will respond to your post later in the day
Prophet 22
This is the message:
Hello Brent,
"If you believe in God, msn me and explain to me why he continually
causes so much bullshit in my life."
I am sorry if this is coming too late, but last night was too busy to
write something and I thought I'd send something out to you anyways.
I remember a Seinfeld episode once where George said "Yeah, I believe
in God; but only for the bad things!" This is a popular sentiment today,
we as a modern society only look to God when we need someone to blame
for our current state in life. I assume that your friend's real
question is: why does God allow bad things to happen to good people? This is
a cliche statement I know, but in my opinion, this question is the key
source of modern day atheism.
If there is a God (and yes personally I do believe in a God), he either
has:
a) Chosen to control each and everyones actions
or
b) Granted everyone free will to do as they wish
Since people still push all-in with 72o , its pretty clear to me that
the latter is true. Poker sarcasm aside, I really feel it is obvious
that we all have free will granted to us.
So if one can agree on free will, we must then accept that alot of
things that happen to us in our daily lives occur directly or indirectly
from the action of our, or someone else's, free will.
Sometimes however, I personally believe God does get involved directly.
These situations are usually personal and extremely difficult to
identify; arguing them often leads to nothing more than a bunch of
frustration.
If you chose to believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, then the event
of the Crucifixion shows that Jesus himself was not spared from "bad
things". However, many Christians believe Jesus died so we would not
have to suffer. Personally, I think it doesn't take long too see that
suffering still exists in the world.... to believers and non-believer
alike.
Thinking that belief in God is a ticket to a struggle-free life is
unrealistic. History has shown us that many a terrible thing has happened
to some fine people:
- The 911 Attack
- The Holocaust
- Rape Vicitims
If your friend is having a tough time, my advice for him depends on the
state of his belief. If he believes in God, the best thing to do is to
let God know that he's angry. Yell at him! Get it out! I mean, if
God really exists he knows how your friend feels anyway and dialoging can
only help.
Just my two cents,
name withheld
If there were a God then we must be prepared for the possibility that he, not only, may not "love" us but also that he may be indifferent towards us or outright dislike us. I would never let someone I even remotely cared about have to go through some of the horrible shit that a lot of people in this world have to endure. He is supposed to be omnipotent (meaning nothing, and I mean NOTHING is beyond his ability) so the argument that someone HAS to endure to grow or learn is completely false. Remember, nothing is beyond his power. If I have the ability to help someone I care about, I do. End of story
As for the free will argument. Free will and god's great plan (or "everything happens for a reason") are completely incompatible. If god truly has a plan and everything will end up exactly as he planned (he is infallible after all) then no matter what we do (or "choose") will change that. So... we couldn't truly have the ability to control the outcome of our lives for they are predetermined to complete this ultimate plan of his.
Besides, god is perfect. Perfection can only beget perfection or else it is not perfect itself. I'm not perfect and I have never met anyone perfect so clearly I was not created by a perfect entity.
What I personally feel is that if you do your best to be a good person (and I don't need fear of a punitive diety to know right from wrong) you stand a better chance of having a good life. Unfortunately there are a lot of random variables in life and in spite of our best efforts we will sometimes encounter outcomes we do not like. There are few guarantees and we need to accept that. Sometimes that bad guy wins and sometimes good guys do finish last that doesn't mean we should give up. After all there are many things we can control (our effort, compassion, empathy, determination, etc..).
I know I rarely chime in on most of the big debates on this forum but I figure I was long overdue to share an opinion that is, I'm sure, fairly contraversial. Time to cash in some of that good will and friendly image I've spent so long saving up.
Steve
Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate it. It was good to hear from you again. When are you going to grace us with your presence at a Bristol event.
Brent
Shtebs, I very much agree with your statement. I don't think I could of articulated it better myself. I also feel that maybe some people believe in a God because they want to know that when their life ends, they will be rewarded for good behaviour, and live forever in Heaven. Or similarly, the so called "bad people" who frustratingly have had it easy despite their moral shortcomings will get theirs, when they die (ie. Hell). I feel that if this mentality keeps people from doing "horrible" things, than there is nothing wrong with this way of life. Whether they are rewarded later or not, these people would have probably had a lot of joy in their life, simply by attempting to earn their way into heaven..
There are also those who believe in God, because it gives them hope in the most troublesome times. For example some of those who survive disasters often pray for help to arrive, and it is a big part of keeping their spirits up, and staying hopeful. I also see no harm in this either.
Voltaire once said "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
And I agree with this. As believing in God helps such an enormous amount of people live positive, kind, and worthwhile lives. A few of these people may have had trouble leading those lives had they not feared retribution.
I don't however believe in God myself. I find there to be more evidence to the contrary, and I also find a way to live a helpful, and kind existence without this belief. In the toughest of times, I try to hang on with everything I have, because I don't believe praying for outside assistance will do me any good... and because I know by pulling through, and surviving, I will have more opportunities at happiness.
I can't argue that belief in a god helps many people deal with difficult times. My grandmother is very devout (much like many peoples grandparents) and her belief helped her accept the sudden loss of my uncle (when he was 50) due to an accident. She was in the hospital with failing health and we were all worried that the shock from the news of my uncle's death would kill her. eventually we had to tell her and she was upset but convinced it was meant to be.
Personally, I weighed the evidence for and against and examined how I truly felt (what my gut or instincts were telling me) about it and found that belief in an omnipotent, all-loving, infallible deity was not something that I could pretend to do anymore (I'm guessing much like you). My life hasn't suffered in spite of the fact that I have endured my own share of hardships and curveballs. We are able to manage without.
Brent,
Always glad to share my opinion (just ask my girlfriend, friends and family. heh heh) but I've tried to not get involved in too many flame wars on this site because I try to keep my involvement mostly related to poker or lighter fare. I do love healthy dialogue and debate about serious issues such as religion, politics and society at large.
I've been busy as hell here in Mississauga with school, work and an instant family but this summer I should have more time available to me. I hope to make it out to some Bristol and other events. Especially since I've been cleaning up at cash games in general but my tournament play is still fairly weak and I can use all the practice I can get. Hell, I might even make it out to a Westside event before the end of the year.
West Side will be coming to your area soon. I will let you know when. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Brent
It may help you get perspective on God, religion and life. It may not. Good luck!
stp
I liked the book Shan, however, I believe Chapter 6 or 7 talks about how god only helps those people who stop harming themselves...
If God is our father...and he 'loves' us...why not help those who hurt most? Whether it is self inflicted or not, it is pain. People hurt themselves for a reason. God turning his back on us is fucked. So fuck God.
(That was tongue in cheek, but you get the gist.)
According to the Bible God did create two perfect human beings. He have them free will and they chose to to become imperfect. Since then all humans come from those two people and are therefore imperfect. Much like baking a cake in a dented pan, the cake will never be perfect.
God does not way in on everyday items and make sure that certain people live a more spectacular life than others. Many people who beleive they are following God's wishes often have horrible things happen to them. This is not God testing their faith but just bad luck. Many people may compare themselves to Job but they are mistaken. God tested only Job in that manner as proof to Satan that God can be loved even if someone faces great tragedy.
Currently God is waiting to take control, through Jesus, of this world. He is watching and waiting and many of our actions today will be judged. He is not preventing children from dying or making sure someone wins an award over someone else.
So to answer your question Brent, a simple response to the question would be God has given you life the greatest gift of all. Instead of blaming God for bad luck take accountability and learn from all the grief. As I believe your signature once said, "Luck is the residue of design".
***Note my own religous beliefs don't neccessarily reflect that which I have written.****
These people tend to place blame on others (or a god) for their misfortune. They tend to ask themselves the question "why me?". They often feel sorry for themselves and are unable to deal with their emotions.
The problem lies in the idea that they never dig deep enough to answer their own question "why me?". I believe that they do this because they are unwilling to concede that decisions they have made have contributed to their current situation.
I understand that if a person has lost a loved one or have become ill to a disease it can be a very confusing and emotional time. I can understand why they may question their god in regards to their current situation.
I also know of many people who also like to place blame on others for the loss of a job, a failed relationship and/or financial problems. This type of person refuses to acknowledge that their actions may have played a large role in where they are now.
Since I believe that Gods are man-made I am a unable to place blame on one and refuse to place blame on others. Until a person acknowledges that they are for the most part responsible for their lot they cannot begin to deal with their emotional state. Once they do take responsibility then they can deal with the emotions and then work on a resolution.
These people tend to place blame on others (or a god) for their misfortune. They tend to ask themselves the question "why me?". They often feel sorry for themselves and are unable to deal with their emotions.
The problem lies in the idea that they never dig deep enough to answer their own question "why me?". I believe that they do this because they are unwilling to concede that decisions they have made have contributed to their current situation.
I understand that if a person has lost a loved one or have become ill to a disease it can be a very confusing and emotional time. I can understand why they may question their god in regards to their current situation.
I also know of many people who also like to place blame on others for the loss of a job, a failed relationship and/or financial problems. This type of person refuses to acknowledge that their actions may have played a large role in where they are now.
Since I believe that Gods are man-made I am a unable to place blame on one and refuse to place blame on others. Until a person acknowledges that they are for the most part responsible for their lot they cannot begin to deal with their emotional state. Once they do take responsibility then they can deal with the emotions and perhaps have an understanding as how to look at a situation from a distance instead of being overridden by their emotions. If they can do this they will certainly have the power to begin working on a resolution to rid themslves of their unwanted stress.