Stats~WTF does all this really mean?
Ok 17,000 hands in Poker Office so far (lost all my Poker Tracker history for first year and a half?). 12,000 hands are .50/1.00 limit, the rest $25 NL. I'm such a lazy slug...what does this tell me about my game?
Hands: 17006
WonHands %=7.71
SawFlop %=20.22
$Won=456.55
$Won/Hand=0.03
BB/100 Hands=4.67
WonSawFlop %=29.73
Showdowns %=5.79
ShowdownsWon %=58.74
PreFlopRaise %=5.26
Hands: 17006
WonHands %=7.71
SawFlop %=20.22
$Won=456.55
$Won/Hand=0.03
BB/100 Hands=4.67
WonSawFlop %=29.73
Showdowns %=5.79
ShowdownsWon %=58.74
PreFlopRaise %=5.26
Comments
/g2
It says that you are a nit
If you saw flop 20% of the time then what is your VPIP?
I would also say that your Pre-flop raise at 5% is pretty passive.
What are your aggression stats after the flop?
yeah, yeah, tell me something I don't know....I don't know if they bluff me, whenever I call the fuckers down they've hit just enough to beat me
seriously tho...this was what I was looking for, unfortunately at .50/1.00 you can make money this way...if I want to step up to higher levels that's the criticism I need, thanks.
VPIP%=16.9
Agression flop 1.4, turn 1.6, river 1.1, sad isn't it?
I'll post again in a few months and see if I've learned anything?
It seems to tell me I'm more agressive at NL? I would have thought it should be the other way around?
VPIP NL 18.1
aggr flop 2.7, turn 3.6, river 3
saw flop 22.2%
pre flop raise 6.94
yadda yadda yadda
so I need to whip my weak tight ass into shape I guess, thanks!
Note to self....re-raise Moose...always!
So to move forward what kind of numbers should I be looking for as a guide to see if I'm on the right track.
I tend to use these numbers as guide more than anything else. I wouldn't get too hung up on them but they are a good tool for getting some insight into your game.
Your VPIP is really at the low end of the spectrum. This is not bad it just means that you don't seem to play a whole lot of speculative hands. This allows opponents to put you on a pretty narrow range of hands when you get involved in a pot. When you do get involved you probably don't get paid on your big hands as much.
If I were to play a player with your stats I would virtually play any two suited, paired, connectors, and one gappers against you because the price is usually cheap (you raise 1 in every 20 hands you play). Here is your raising range: AA-88, AK-AJs, AKo, KQs. That is the top 5% of hands. Makes it easy to put you on a hand doesn't it.
All that is assuming that your opponents are paying attention. At 25NL most are not. But you will want to keep this in mind as you move up or if you are playing against someone who you read as a thinking player.
I would also look at your aggression. When you are mucking around in so few pots you need to raise it up and charge the others at the table a premium to play against your premium hands.
You are in good shape here because you are building your game from the ground up and learning to play big hands first. I would make a decision to get your PreFlop raise %age into the 12-15% range immediately.
C-Bet a ton of flops after you raise. You will take most of them down.
Next start to add some different hands to your opening range.
Good Luck!
This means you shouldn't change your game to what others are telling you as you will likely bring your game down a notch. Pretty hard to get a win rate much higher than that -- likely only 1/2% of all players who win higher than that.
You should be giving advice!
Perhaps you want to move up -- well use your same game and monitor your win rate. If you're not at a level you would like then start checking into things like -- am I raising enough, am i folding too much etc.
Cheers
Magi
Yes, Dont take me the wrong way. The way you play is obviously working for you and if you are happy with your results then don't mess with your game.
These are just some things to consider if you are looking to open up your game try and grow as a player. I always assume that is what everone is doing here!
I have heard it said that the best players can play all different styles. I think that if you are cabable of being a bit of a chameleon at the table your will always be adjusting and playing the style that will be the most profitable in the game you are currently sitting in.
Don't mean that the advice is bad -- in fact I think much of the advice is good.
However, I think he must be playing well and playing different styles etc., to achieve such a high win rate.
Cheers
Magi
I think at .50/1.00 and $25 NL this is a none issue, quite frankly the players at this level are just not good enough to pick up on this...that said if I want to move up then I have to anticipate the better players will indeed pick up on this so thank you for your opinion.
I agree I am not aggressive enough, I think that is one of the hardest things to overcome for me...I have to stop seeing monsters, however I think I have improved over the last few months and playing NL I think has helped ...I am definitely more aggressive in NL. I think also that at the micro level of limit I play there are just so many players that either don't understand pot odds or just don't care so although I completely understand controlling the pot, building the pot, making players make mistakes and make the draws pay I think subconsciously I have played more passively because at these levels some times it simply doesn't work...with the amount of players that will "ride it out" to the river the odds one of them will catch is greater. So I kinda nut peddle because the same holds true when you have the nuts, they just don't let go and I consistently get paid off.
I am confident my game will change appropriately as I move up with the help of all the incredible talent on this forum. I understand if I take my current game to the next level I will likely get picked apart but good poker is adjusting to the current game you're playing right? So I think I am playing a profitable style for these micro levels but I appreciate all the comments here as I try to fine tune and step up, thanks all!
Thanks Lou, I always appreciate your input..how are you doing by the way...haven't heard much from you lately? Hope all is well. Thanks for the nice comments...as for giving advice..hahaha I'm not there yet, not by a long shot....maybe to help some newbies break in at the micro levels as I do feel confident I can win consistently at those levels but now I'm eager to step it up. Slow and steady will be the course for me....I'll start by playing my game keeping all the good pointers I have read tucked aweay in my head ready to go and post some revised stats in a few months, then we can see if I've learned anything.
Also your table image is tight enough to make some bluffs.
Actually I'm a Hazard, rated Tight-Agressive-Passive...one step up from the T-P-A Mouse...my wife would definitely agree I'm hazardous!
As for position, I give a lot of consideration to position and I do open up my starting hand requirements as position improves. I only play when I'm getting rake back or reload bonuses so regardless of rake I am most definitely up (+4BB/100 ain't too bad add in reloads and rake back and it's a nice hobby). As for being able to bluff me, yes I guess this is possible, more so in NL or in a tournament structure...but I play a lot of limit and in most cases it is difficult to bluff at the .50/1.00 levels...that's not to say it doesn't happen but I have a good understanding of pot odds and you're not pushing me off a pot if I have odds to call. I agree this may be a concern at higher levels but don't get so hung up on bluffing, I don't believe I'm losing much to bluffs at the levels I'm playing now. As well, it's usually a mistake to bluff at these micro-levels of limit poker as your opponent is usually getting correct odds to call. I think the bluff is a powerful tool in NL and in higher stakes limit but definitely not in no-fold'em hold'em.
That said, if I do plan to move up I will have to both be able to bluff and be able to pick one off....or at least project an image that I cannot easily be bluffed.
Here's something I found talking about win-rates...not really sure how accurate or important it is and another thing to keep in mind is that I normally 4-table which I think on general may reduce win-rates? Using these calculations below I'm over $10/hr? That doesn't seem too bad for me at the .50/1.00 level?
Earn Rates
How to calculate your hourly rate yourself:
# of tables * bb * bb/100 * hands/hour
example: 4 tables * $4 * 1.5 bb/100 * 65 = 4*4*1.5*65/100 = $15.6/hr
-bb means big bet ($4 at $2/4)
-bb/100 is your winrate, it stands for the # of big bets you earn per 100
hands. For the purposes of this chart I will say that a "low" win rate is
0-1 bb/100 hands and that a "good" win rate is 1-2.5 bb/100 hands)
-approximately 65 hands are played per hour at a full ring table
$0.5/1:
1 table: low = 0 - $0.65/hr good = 0.65 - $1.63/hr
2 tables: low = 0 - 1.3 good = 1.3 - 3.25
3 tables: low = 0 -1.95 good = 1.95 - 4.88
4 tables: low = 0 - 2.6 good = 2.6 - 6.5
5 tables: low = 0 - 3.25 good = 3.25 - 8.12
6 tables: low = 0 - 3.9 good = 3.9 - 9.75
7 tables: low = 0 - 4.55 good = 4.55 - 11.375
8 tables: low = 0 - 5.2 good = 5.2 - 13.0
Again tho, thanks for everyone's input, I have lots of notes now to move forward with.
I do not believe that 4PTBB/100 hands is crushing the game at $25NL. However it is beating the game it and it is a solid result.
PokerTracker does not work on Supreme and I have played there almost exclusively for the last two months. Here are my calculations:
3300 hands played at $25NL
$192 profit
(192/3300) X 100 = $5.81 per 100 hands
PokerTracker calculates BB as a Big Bet so at $25NL this is $0.50
$5.81/$0.50 = 11.62
So My PTBB is 11.62 at Supreme
Over 8000 hands on Poker Stars at $10NL my PTBB is 8.65
Over 1585 hands on Poker Stars at $25NL my PTBB is 30.45 (can anyone say heater?)
Sure you can say these sample sizes are small. But I think at $25NL you can beat the game for 10 PTBB if you are capable of mixing up your game.
From Stars:
My VPIP is 28.5
PFR is 17.5
I think you need to distinguish where these numbers are coming from. I don't know much about NL sustainable win rates. But if you're beating the game at 4BB/100 in LHE, you're absolutely crushing the game. I'd go on to say that your numbers "probably" aren't sustainable, and that you're on a significant heater. Anything over 1BB/100 is reasonable. Over 2BB/100 is dominant.
/g2
Easy
asdfasdf
Yup, you can filter by just about anything in PT. Limit, site, number of players, game type. Like g2 said, mixing the 2 stats can easily skew your results. You could be moderately down to break even in LHE and drag one monster pot in NL and your numbers are drastically skewed. Compare apples to apples, because NLHE and FLHE are nowhere close to being the same game.
Excellent point, I think my old Poker Tracker numbers for limit were somewhere between 1 and 2BB/100 but less then 1.5BB/100? I use Poker Office now not Tracker (corrupted database so I lost everything), but I believe you can seperate them and I will check tonight.
Sorry Lou, as noted this number includes Limit and NL hands so it's not completely fair, I should post both Limit and NL seperately. Plus I only have history for 17000 limit hands so far.
This makes me chuckle (only since we SOOOO many posts about how I won X amount over my last 200 hands posts).
Spoken like someone who actually has a grasp on variance and how long the "long-run" is. Kudos. IMO 10k-20k isn't bad for first check quick "litmus test".
It's not crushing it, but it isn't as bad as you think (and it would be close to crushing if it were multi-tabling, IMO). It's hard to find good numbers to base things on, but from what I've researched, crushing is anything above 6 PTBB/100 (I haven't seen more than a handful of long-terms 10+'s).
My experience is also that multi-tabling significantly lowers your win-rate, more than most people might think. Personally I've noticed my win-rates drop by about 1/2 once I add 3 or more tables.
My NL sample size is pretty small, but it dwarfs everything posted so far. Around 100k hands (limits .10/.25 up to 1/2) 4-tabling, with win-rates of 2.67/100 or 5.19/hr (avg. 60 hands/hour). I also had some pretty massive variance corrections (previously posted), which is why I think some of these big numbers discussed simply aren't sustainable.
For the record I was responding to another post where someone said that 4 PTBB is crushing the game. It is a solid win rate just not crushing the game. As far as your numbers they are solid too. Congrats!
I do not play a lot of tables. Often I will play only one table at a time. Two at the most. I realize that this will give my win rate an advantage over someone playing more tables.
I routinely search out players who are multi-tabling, get position on them and pound on them. So many of them are on auto-pilot and will never adjust their range when I am 3 betting the snot out of them.
To split things up a bit my limit stats are 12777 hands in my new Poker Office database with a win-rate of 1.2BB/100 hands. Not great but I guess from what you guys all say not entirely bad?
Then my NL is split up in a bunch of different formats with the majority of hands being $25 NL with 3996 hands and a win-rate of 14.5BB/100 hands.
The other samples are too small to even bother with. I think even the 3996 is too small a sample as well....we'll see where I stand after 10,000 hands at NL....hopefully not broke?