Advance Move?
3 Players, Blinds 200/400, every one is in the money.
Pay out it is 50-30-20.
You are in the SB for 200, you have 7000 in chips.
BB has 2600 in chips.
Button has 400 chips, they just got crippled.
Button folds.
Action is to you.
Do you push with any two here?
If no then what range of cards would you be playing from the SB and how would you play them?
The player in the BB is a solid player and knows how to play.
Pay out it is 50-30-20.
You are in the SB for 200, you have 7000 in chips.
BB has 2600 in chips.
Button has 400 chips, they just got crippled.
Button folds.
Action is to you.
Do you push with any two here?
If no then what range of cards would you be playing from the SB and how would you play them?
The player in the BB is a solid player and knows how to play.
Comments
/g2
If he calls, you are likely beat and drawing. Now he has 5200 chips and is the chip leader. I don't see the logic behind an any-two-will-do push for that few chips. Are your 200 going to strengthen his position that much? I don't think so, you can just let it go and get HU the next hand.
Unless of course you are suffering from serious brain fart and neglect to see what the BB has left and simply fold your crap SB without any thought to your opponent and how skilled they are (which btw, I have all the respect in the world for the player's skill here)...then its an advance play
/g2
- Even with 7-2, you are (most likely) 60/40 to win
- Eliminate a player, move up in money
- Wil cost you exactly the pot to put him all in (unless you meant 400 after the BB), so you're getting 2:1 - correct calling odds
- Total amount of your stack this will cost, about 5%
Cons:
If he doubles up, hell have a whopping 800 bucks, or an M of 2.66
Edit: I was gonna edit this post once you edited yours. Too late now.
/g2
Let me look again (and thanks for quoting to prevent me from editing g2)
The more detailed I get, the more trouble I get into, so I'll just say
Yea, I'd raise him all in here, he's short too, but can probably convince himself to avoid 3rd place against the button... and worst case scenario you double him up, you're even in chips, and play HU when 400 busts.
Mark
That is what I was thinking....for me this is almost an automatic push here with any two.
He can only call if he has Aces, Kings, or Queens.
Specifically, if you just blindly shove I would call with 88-AA, Q8+, K8+, Ax
Where if you looked at your cards first I would only call with JJ-AA, K10+, A10+
There are numerous reasons for this:
1) We're already in the money and the payouts aren't that different. (as an aside, if it's a satellite with 2 seats awarded even folding AA might be justifiable, but that's a totally different scenario)
2) I'm gonna need to double up at least once to get even with you so I've got a shot at the win
3) Maybe the button is my friend and I wouldn't mind seeing him take 2nd place
Either way, looking at your cards at least reduces the risk that you get called.
So my final answer is: no, this is not an auto-shove.
/g2
i'm not sure you even get called by AK here. dunno what hands would be worth risking going broke given the situation. although, since the diff between 2nd and 3rd isn't as dramatic as with 2nd and 1st, i suppose i'd be willing to gamble a bit to be in good shape for the heads up - so maybe you get called by AJ+, 99+. does SB need a hand better than that to push? naw. but again, i don't see a huge benefit in adding 8% to my stack when i'm already ahead almost 3-1 in chips. you could work out the EV but why bother - buddy will do it for you...
/g2
it actually is an auto-shove to the purists and action junkies but sometimes you just have to let the apathy take over.
Button has only 400 and has already folded. You are playing for 2600 chips ...
If the SB is pushing any 2 it is easy to determine what the BB needs to call by using ICM. It has been a while since I have done one of these calculations but if I did it right the BB can only call with 77+ and AK. So if the BB has a solid understanding of ranges needed and ICM then it is an easy shove with any 2.
However if the BB will call with a wider range, then the SB needs to tighten his range.
The player in the BB has to think can he out play/win against the player in the SB.
If they answer yes then they will have to fold any two except a monster here, because unless the have pair high then the cards in the SB hands or are dominating the SB cards it will be 60/40.
If they think no then they can call with their usual range of hands that they would call with in a normal situation.
Now if you had say K-Q suited in the BB and the SB pushes and you know they don't have Aces, Kings or Queens could you call? What if you knew they had two unders?
This is not true. If the BB calls and wins he then has a slight chip lead. This means he will still get second close to half the time.
If you have KQs in the BB you can't call even if you know that the SB is pushing any 2. KQs is only 63% against any 2 cards and he needs to be 65%. If you knew that they had 2 unders, then with KQs you could call as you would be about 67%.
This is the important part here. If the BB is indeed solid and does understand the game then he realizes that he needs a huge hand to call a push here. Translation - AA or KK maybe.
The situation can be thought of as a bubble within a bubble. You are all in the money but the button has 3rd place wrapped up. The only way the BB can screw up a guaranteed 2nd is to risk his stack before this bubble bursts.
Any good player knows this. That is why you push.
The point about doing a Hollywood performance and looking at your cards and trying to sell the fact that you have a real hand is valid in one respect.
A bad player may not understand the math of this situation and may call you because he doesn't know any better. There are many replies in this thread that can attest to that. Against the weaker players you may want to sell them on the fact that you have a good hand.
Against this solid player you should be able to push all in and never see a call.