Table Etiquette: Show all or show none

Chugs

I was wondering if the concept of "showing the whole table your cards, or showing no one your cards" is a rule or more an issue of etiquette.

What i'm talking about is a player after deciding to fold, showing a buddy their hole cards or even the person the just beat those cards but not showing the entire table.

I know it doesn't in theory affect the play of the hand after its happened, but i've even seen situations where players have shown their cards to another player (who has already mucked) before the play of the entire hand has happened. (ie. a tough laydown with three, leaving 2 players still playing).


just wanted opinions and a polite way to deal with this.

Hork42

I've seen it enforced as a rule at Rama. The dealer actually exposed the cards before the hand was over as the "show one, show all" rule...


I was at Seneca on saturday, one rule they have (or one dealer who is wrong) is that only the player involved in the hand at the end can request to see another players mucked cards... I was heads-up against a player and as he folded, another player asked to see his cards. Dealer wouldn't let him and mucked it saying that only I would have been allowed to ask. My impression was that anyone at the table could ask to see the cards, but it is generally considered poor etiquette if you're doing it just to gain information as the rule was put in place to fight against collusion.

Another weird one at Seneca... new players didn't have to post when they sat at a table...this one was consistent with all dealers there. They did have to pay and surrender if they missed the blinds though.

hork.

Iron

Some places have a "show one, show all rule" posted on the rule board (ie. CNE casino has this). There the dealers have gone as far as to expose a card that they saw when it was mucked carelessly, saying "I saw it, and so someone else might have seen it, so in fairness everyone should see it". If someone is showing their buddy their hole cards in a place with the "show one, show all" rule, you could ask the dealer to show them. The best way to be sure is to ask about the rule if it's not on the board. This has never affected a hand I was involved in so I never have had to ask myself.

Hork - while places I have played have always allowed any player to request to see a hand at showdown, I have read that some B&M's rule is that only a player still in the hand at the showdown has this right (there are numerous threads on the 2+2 board about this).

BigChrisEl

The rule I was told that if a player calls all the way to end and then mucks any other player at the table can ask to see his cards. So if a player bets and the river and then he folds no one can ask to see the cards.

Chugs

but generally speaking if a guy shows his cards to his friend he should have to show the entire table ... period?

ScottyZ

The "show one, show all" rule is definitely a house rule.

Generally casinos have such a rule. The *timing* of when the cards are shown may vary.

As for a home game, remember that pretty much anything goes, and this sort of thing is really going to be up to the game organizer.

A polite way to bring up discussion of this at a home game is simply asking about it in a non-opinionated way. Something like, "Do you guys have a rule about showing your hole cards to other people at the table?"

If everyone seems stunned that you are asking about something as wacko as "rules", or if there is no real answer, you might follow it up with a marginally more aggressive statement along the lines of "that's the way it's done at a lot of casinos."

Obviously the *ideal* rule, is to not allow showing cards like this at all. In fact, this is optimal strategy too. I have made one check-raise river bluff in my entire life in low-limit holdem, and the fact that my opponent had shown his hole cards to people at the other end of the table was the reason I knew it would work.

But, don't forget, this is a house rule. If you're in a home game and they use a non-standard rule, you'll simply have to live with that. (If you strongly disagree, you may wish to bring it up at a later point, but away from the game, to the organizer if you think he/she would be open to these sorts of suggestions.)

ScottyZ

Hork42

Now, what if the player next to you is showing YOU his hands after you fold? Do you do anything to stop it?

It's more information for you on the hands that he plays, but it can draw resentment from the rest of the table... So they might begin to play at you and give you a harder time...

If you do something to stop it, the player who is showing may resent it, thus losing your "table buddy".

So what's more important, the added info and a table buddy, or the table image of being the "nice guy who people don't really mind losing money to."

I'm just curious as to how many people would tell buddy to take a hike or move seats or something...

inmiss

I was at Seneca this Saturday as well. Waited forever for a seat on the NL table. When I finally did sit down (3 hours later!), I had to post. I think tables with a $10 big blind and up have to post.

What limit were you playing?

Hork42

inmiss wrote:

I was at Seneca this Saturday as well. Waited forever for a seat on the NL table. When I finally did sit down (3 hours later!), I had to post. I think tables with a $10 big blind and up have to post.

What limit were you playing?

I was just playing 2/4. It was the first table available and once I sat down, I realized how good a table it was and I didn't leave it all night. Basically, my friend and I controlled the betting. If one of us bet, the whole table called. If we didn't bet, everyone checked and we got our free cards. This was the most Loose Passive table I'd ever seen. 8 or 9 to the flop almost every hand. Unfortunately I got the worst of the implicit collusion and at the end of it finished $10 down. But I would play there any day.

hork.

micr0be

i remember people having to post at my 3/6 table

but i also remember the dealer giving me the turn when someone bet 6 and others calle dout of turn while i was thinking, the free card didnt help me anyway..but the dealers there obviously miss things

stpboy

While at Brantford C.C. this past week I showed the guy beside me my cards (Ax, with an ace on the board) as I was folding. The dealer saw me do it and flipped the cards on the table to show all, this was on the turn with 2 people still in the hand.

Big J

stpboy wrote:

While at Brantford C.C. this past week I showed the guy beside me my cards (Ax, with an ace on the board) as I was folding. The dealer saw me do it and flipped the cards on the table to show all, this was on the turn with 2 people still in the hand.

If the guy beside you was one of the guys still in the hand this was the right thing to do, if not the dealer is an idiot.

stpboy

The two guys that were still in the hand were way across at the other end of the table. I don't make a habit out of doing that but when I do I make sure there is no way the current players can see. Yeah, I wasn't sure what the dealer was doing when he flipped them and ran them face up across the table. Although it did benefit me folding my ace with an ace on the board and the dealer showing it.

ScottyZ

I remember a time at Brantford when someone still *in* the hand was forced to comply with the "show one, show all" rule. This was quite a while ago, when this particular rule was first introduced (or at the very least, was being regularly enforced for the first time). I am not sure if they would make the same ruling on this today.

Brantford 5-10. Flop comes ATx, and a player still in the hand shows his cards to the guy next to him. Dealer notices, and informs the player of the rule, and says the hole cards must be exposed. Guy refuses. Floor is called. The floor comes over, and the guy refuses to show his cards for a good 2 or 3 minutes. Eventually, the guy gives in shows AA, is on major tilt, and continues playing with the AA face up. He bets the flop. One caller. (?)

Turn: x. The AA is still the nuts at this point. Check-bet-call.

River Q. Opponent bets out.

Then I see what remains to this day the worst play I have ever seen in poker.

You guessed it. The AA raises.

ScottyZ

stpboy

Thats hilarious, I'll take a modest guess at what he had..Quad x's!!

ScottyZ

Oops.

The turn was such that x was not equal to x.

ScottyZ

Big J

So the guy had KJ to make the straight then?

ScottyZ

Yes, it was KJ. Quite bizzarely chased, no?

I remember that holding distictly since I was also dealt KJ that same hand. (I folded pre-flop.)

ScottyZ

Big J

Ya, that's crazy, especially when you already KNOW that your opponent has the set of A's and that a Q and only a Q can save you...oh well to each their own...I love the guy with A's raising on the end...did the guy with the straight reraise back at him?

ScottyZ

Yes, the KJ re-raised the river. Mercifully, the AA just called the 3rd river bet.

ScottyZ

Big J

LOL...that story should be the dictionary definition of "On Tilt"

stpboy

stpboy wrote:

Thats hilarious, I'll take a modest guess at what he had..Quad x's!!

I'm hoping that noone took me seriously here, KJ was the more obvious guess. LOL.