Table Etiquette: Show all or show none
I was wondering if the concept of "showing the whole table your cards, or showing no one your cards" is a rule or more an issue of etiquette.
What i'm talking about is a player after deciding to fold, showing a buddy their hole cards or even the person the just beat those cards but not showing the entire table.
I know it doesn't in theory affect the play of the hand after its happened, but i've even seen situations where players have shown their cards to another player (who has already mucked) before the play of the entire hand has happened. (ie. a tough laydown with three, leaving 2 players still playing).
just wanted opinions and a polite way to deal with this.
What i'm talking about is a player after deciding to fold, showing a buddy their hole cards or even the person the just beat those cards but not showing the entire table.
I know it doesn't in theory affect the play of the hand after its happened, but i've even seen situations where players have shown their cards to another player (who has already mucked) before the play of the entire hand has happened. (ie. a tough laydown with three, leaving 2 players still playing).
just wanted opinions and a polite way to deal with this.
Comments
I was at Seneca on saturday, one rule they have (or one dealer who is wrong) is that only the player involved in the hand at the end can request to see another players mucked cards... I was heads-up against a player and as he folded, another player asked to see his cards. Dealer wouldn't let him and mucked it saying that only I would have been allowed to ask. My impression was that anyone at the table could ask to see the cards, but it is generally considered poor etiquette if you're doing it just to gain information as the rule was put in place to fight against collusion.
Another weird one at Seneca... new players didn't have to post when they sat at a table...this one was consistent with all dealers there. They did have to pay and surrender if they missed the blinds though.
hork.
Hork - while places I have played have always allowed any player to request to see a hand at showdown, I have read that some B&M's rule is that only a player still in the hand at the showdown has this right (there are numerous threads on the 2+2 board about this).
Generally casinos have such a rule. The *timing* of when the cards are shown may vary.
As for a home game, remember that pretty much anything goes, and this sort of thing is really going to be up to the game organizer.
A polite way to bring up discussion of this at a home game is simply asking about it in a non-opinionated way. Something like, "Do you guys have a rule about showing your hole cards to other people at the table?"
If everyone seems stunned that you are asking about something as wacko as "rules",
Obviously the *ideal* rule, is to not allow showing cards like this at all. In fact, this is optimal strategy too. I have made one check-raise river bluff in my entire life in low-limit holdem, and the fact that my opponent had shown his hole cards to people at the other end of the table was the reason I knew it would work.
But, don't forget, this is a house rule. If you're in a home game and they use a non-standard rule, you'll simply have to live with that. (If you strongly disagree, you may wish to bring it up at a later point, but away from the game, to the organizer if you think he/she would be open to these sorts of suggestions.)
ScottyZ
It's more information for you on the hands that he plays, but it can draw resentment from the rest of the table... So they might begin to play at you and give you a harder time...
If you do something to stop it, the player who is showing may resent it, thus losing your "table buddy".
So what's more important, the added info and a table buddy, or the table image of being the "nice guy who people don't really mind losing money to."
I'm just curious as to how many people would tell buddy to take a hike or move seats or something...
What limit were you playing?
hork.
but i also remember the dealer giving me the turn when someone bet 6 and others calle dout of turn while i was thinking, the free card didnt help me anyway..but the dealers there obviously miss things
If the guy beside you was one of the guys still in the hand this was the right thing to do, if not the dealer is an idiot.
Brantford 5-10. Flop comes ATx, and a player still in the hand shows his cards to the guy next to him. Dealer notices, and informs the player of the rule, and says the hole cards must be exposed. Guy refuses. Floor is called. The floor comes over, and the guy refuses to show his cards for a good 2 or 3 minutes. Eventually, the guy gives in shows AA, is on major tilt, and continues playing with the AA face up. He bets the flop. One caller. (?)
Turn: x. The AA is still the nuts at this point. Check-bet-call.
River Q. Opponent bets out.
Then I see what remains to this day the worst play I have ever seen in poker.
You guessed it. The AA raises.
ScottyZ
The turn was such that x was not equal to x.
ScottyZ
I remember that holding distictly since I was also dealt KJ that same hand. (I folded pre-flop.)
ScottyZ
ScottyZ
I'm hoping that noone took me seriously here, KJ was the more obvious guess. LOL.