WTF do you do here?
Texas Hold'em $0.25-$0.25 NL (Real Money), #1,890,702,565
Table Athen, 17 Feb 2007 2:47 PM ET
Seat 0: superrodin ($31.65 in chips)
Seat 1: PokerDan58 ($22.65 in chips)
Seat 2: 20Make ($32.40 in chips)
Seat 3: hapeky ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 4: tuana2 ($17 in chips)
Seat 5: LuckyRiver5 ($22.55 in chips) (on the button)
Seat 6: game2meatu ($24.50 in chips)
Seat 7: Mr._JB ($40.35 in chips)
Seat 8: Donk.E ($21.60 in chips)
Seat 9: nelisilma44 ($31.90 in chips)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
game2meatu : Post Blind ($0.15)
Mr._JB : Post Blind ($0.25)
Dealt to Donk.E: Jh
Dealt to Donk.E: Jd
*** Pre-Flop *** :
Donk.E : Bet ($1.50)
nelisilma44 : Fold
superrodin : Fold
PokerDan58 : Fold
20Make : Call ($1.50)
hapeky : Fold
tuana2 : Fold
LuckyRiver5 : Fold
game2meatu : Fold
Mr._JB : Fold
*** Flop *** : 9s 3c 8h
Donk.E : Bet ($2)
20Make : Call ($2)
*** Turn *** : [ 9s 3c 8h ] 6s
Donk.E : Bet ($5)
20Make : Call ($5)
*** River *** : [ 9s 3c 8h 6s ] Kd
Donk.E : Bet ($5)
20Make : Fold
Table Athen, 17 Feb 2007 2:47 PM ET
Seat 0: superrodin ($31.65 in chips)
Seat 1: PokerDan58 ($22.65 in chips)
Seat 2: 20Make ($32.40 in chips)
Seat 3: hapeky ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 4: tuana2 ($17 in chips)
Seat 5: LuckyRiver5 ($22.55 in chips) (on the button)
Seat 6: game2meatu ($24.50 in chips)
Seat 7: Mr._JB ($40.35 in chips)
Seat 8: Donk.E ($21.60 in chips)
Seat 9: nelisilma44 ($31.90 in chips)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
game2meatu : Post Blind ($0.15)
Mr._JB : Post Blind ($0.25)
Dealt to Donk.E: Jh
Dealt to Donk.E: Jd
*** Pre-Flop *** :
Donk.E : Bet ($1.50)
nelisilma44 : Fold
superrodin : Fold
PokerDan58 : Fold
20Make : Call ($1.50)
hapeky : Fold
tuana2 : Fold
LuckyRiver5 : Fold
game2meatu : Fold
Mr._JB : Fold
*** Flop *** : 9s 3c 8h
Donk.E : Bet ($2)
20Make : Call ($2)
*** Turn *** : [ 9s 3c 8h ] 6s
Donk.E : Bet ($5)
20Make : Call ($5)
*** River *** : [ 9s 3c 8h 6s ] Kd
Donk.E : Bet ($5)
20Make : Fold
Comments
I check the river, and call his bet if he underbets his straight.
Also, I might have bet more on the flop, but then again, he looks like he wanted to call you all the way down.
Tough one.
This is definitely a reverse implied odds situation. You haven't known where you are for the entire hand and are probably behind.
You can't really be worried about the K on the river here. Even AK is very unlikely with villain being so passive pre-flop.
At this point I make a blocking bet on the river and hope to get a showdown as cheaply as possible.
You probably should have been controlling the pot on the turn.
Kinda sucks being out of position doesn't it!
no reads? nl is all about reads. how can we advise you without reads?
i would have played it differently since you're out of position with a tricky hand...
... but given the situation, the K did not complete any draws. if you read him as chasing a draw, check and give him a chance to bluff you. if you read him for slowplaying a monster, then check and fold. if you read him for overplaying top pair or TT, he very well could call a reasonable bet. if you read him for QQ or AA, do you think you can get him to fold? if so, bet enough to take it down but i doubt he folds here.
any reasonable bet you make on the river will practically compel you to call any raise.
given your big pre-flop raise OOP, i'd put you on 99-JJ or just a donk making a bad play. if i know i had that beat, i'd put a lot of pressure on you at the river, even though 99 is huge here...
does it ever!
LOL, I think you can easily narrow that down to the later.....just a donk making a bad play? Seriously tho, can you explain how you'd approach this hand? JJ IMHO is a tricky hand?
This was my thinking. I appreciate all the responses, they have really got me thinking about how to approach a hand like this in the future...and honestly there are good arguments for betting and for checking. Here is the river. I made the bet for one reason.....I did not want to make a decision to call if I check...sure I'd easily call a few bucks but what if he throws out $10 or more, or pushes all-in? If I bet out and he comes over the top I feel I have an easier decision. If I check and he pushes me off the pot I won't feel so good. So I wanted to put the decision to him. I had him on a range of hands to start but when he called the $5 on the turn I was lost and a little worried about him possibly trapping with a set. So how much to bet? I don't want to throw a tiny bet out there I think that just shows weakness and opens the door for him to push me off this pot. I decided to just repeat my turn bet...not sure if that was wise but my thinking is it may look like I want to get called but not look weak. I certainly don't want to overbet or push here as I only get called by a better hand. I threw $5 out there hoping he either folds or calls. If he comes over the top then I think I can easily call or fold depending on the amount. Thankfully this time it worked out in my favour.
*** River *** : [ 9s 3c 8h 6s ] Kd
Donk.E : Bet ($5)
20Make : Fold
What do you think he had now?
QQ
A9?
Hard to say, he could have also been open ended for all I know? A9 is certainly possible I guess but I wouldn't call $1.50 pre-flop with it? Perhaps QQ, JJ (although I have 2 as well?), but I can't see him folding those when the K pops rather I see him re-raising me? TT is a good possibility, maybe A9s, TJs (although calling $1.50 pre-flop with this I think is dumb unless there are more hands in the pot, more likely something like 77? If I had to guess I'd say something like TT or 77 if he likes chasing (which he seemed to do). He's obviously got me on an over pair or overcards so maybe with something like TT or 77 he was hanging in to see if he could out draw me?
After this hand I noticed this guy called down a lot of hands and tended to fold to a decent river bet but come over top of a weak bet (he'd never show). He didn't seem to bet on the early streets, he'd call then fold/raise the river? He really came after me as well. If I was in a hand he'd stay in and then make huge bets/raises on the river. I never got a chance to take more from him but I also didn't give him his money back
the conservative way is play like a small pair and don't get too committed until you hit your set. this is how someone like largay would play it - either doubling up or letting it go if you don't hit and someone else shows aggression.
the other way is be very aggressive until you are sure you are behind. high variance. if you get a safe flop, put out a big bet and hopefully you'll know if you are behind right away before you get too much more into the pot.
/g2
Why did you call $5 on the turn only to give it up on the river for the same price? The two bets of the same size on river reek of weakness to me, so I'd call there (but no raise).
I bet $5 on the turn and the river, he gave it up...which is what raised my whole question.....I was unsure what to do on the river? You're slipping BBC!
After reading through this thread again I am surprised that this post did not get any comment at all. In hindsight it is IMO the most +EV play of the bunch.
If we believe that we are possibly ahead here and we are going to put more money in the pot on the river it makes the most sense to let him bluff at it to get the money in. He will never call with a missed draw.
Your river bet may get called by some weaker holdings but not likely. You most often will only get called by a hand that beats you. To make the most $$$ on this play over the long run you need to get paid by the missed draws too.
Thanks Watts. Your input is appreciated.
Oh.. well.. uhh.. err.. then obviously my point was that I woulda called your $5 on the river with middle pair
Is there anything resembling a point here?