1/2 Analysis/Feedback

JimmyHo

Ok, I know this is a classic mistake but I thought I would see what others would have done in the same situation. 1/2 ($200 buy-in) with UTG and UTG +1 raising to $5 blind (they are buddies) and a couple other players call before it gets to me. I have two black aces. I raise $10 to $15 and everyone folds except UTG and UTG+1 who both call blind. They are both good players who are LA and will call/raise with any two cards. They have been mixing up their play a lot with blind raises, blind calls, checking in the dark, etc. Flop comes Q, 6, 8 (rainbow). UTG looks at his cards and raises to $50, UTG+1 folds. I put him on a steal and figure he thinks I have a couple high cards (excluding a Q) and is testing to see what I will do. He has about $125 left and I have about $300 in front of me. I raise $100 and he goes all-in for his last $25. He flips over a 6, 8 and holds up to win the pot. Bad beat or bad play? Its kind of ironic that I made this post a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.pokerforum.ca/showthread.php?t=11066

g2

With the 2 blind players in for $5, plus a couple more callers, the pot was at least $23, right. Raising $10 is not a significant raise here. I would probably pop it to $22 (because I like betting odd amounts) instead of $15. There's no way of knowing whether the 68 still would have called, but I would probably play it the same as you post-flop... and from my experience I believe the 68 typically would have played Qx the same as he did 68 on that flop.

As a side note, the "couple other callers" who called the $5, but folded after you made it $15 are DONKS. Fold for another $10 into a $58 pot? Maybe if I was only dealt 1 card.

/g2

JimmyHo

I guess I didn't raise more because I wasn't raising a lot, and I didn't want to tip them off that I had a solid starting hand. I wanted a least one caller with this starting hand. I had a feeling that one of the two blind callers would stick around with this size raise and the rest of the field would fold. When both called (blind), I figured this was a good thing. The other players likely realized I had a good starting hand based on a larger than usual raise (from me anyways).

g2

That's exactly why they had implied odds to call the extra $10.

/g2

magithighs

g2 wrote: »

That's exactly why they had implied odds to call the extra $10.

/g2

G2 is correct. Personally, in these gamble it up games I'm pushing all-in preflop with the aces. This will make them look at their cards and you'll get called by pairs & AK-AJ which is all good. This way you don't have to worry about facing four blinds! And, I'm happy with the pot as it stands.

Cheers
Magi

JimmyHo

Thanks Magi, although they were calling blind, unlikely they would have called my all-in with even a small pair, etc. I wanted to keep them around but I hit an unlucky flop. Sounds like it was a bad beat unfortunately.

pkrfce9

if you are going to raise here, make it hurt.

on the flop, you gotta decide if he makes that move with a just a pair or draw or does he need something more. you've only got 15 bucks invested after all. i don't classify this as a bad beat at all. it is a very good beat.

ScoobyD

Sounds like it was a bad beat unfortunately.

No, like everyone else has said it isn't a bad beat, because you gave great implied odds. I'm not saying you want them to drop it preflop, but you want to punish them and make them make bad decisions that hurt in a BIG way.

I guess I didn't raise more because I wasn't raising a lot, and I didn't want to tip them off that I had a solid starting hand.

And you don't think that reraising an amount that says "I really really want a little more action with this hand" isn't going to do this? If you reraise to like 35-40 it may occur to them that you "might" be restealing or that you somehow don't want to take a flop and if they're laggish they'll be reluctant to fold to your bullying back tactics. The size of the raise isn't always the biggest indicator of the strength of the hand...

Chuckieland

tough beat
It's hard to laydown packet As with that kind of flop.
i would resaise them, but if they come back with all in, then i would think my As are beat, because they made had two pair or trips.
in live play, you hardly see an allin with just top pair and top kicker. it's a gutty move.

QueenNine

Chuckieland wrote: »

tough beat
i would resaise them, but if they come back with all in, then i would think my As are beat, because they made had two pair or trips.
in live play, you hardly see an allin with just top pair and top kicker. it's a gutty move.

He did reraise, and they did come back with a re reraise all in, but only for another $25. Definitely no folding there. Tough break.

I think your mistake as everyone else pointed out, was not raising enough preflop. With $23 already in the pot you should have been looking at raising to $30 or more. That and the fact that I hate AA and KK is quickly becoming another dreaded hand. I have had incredibly bad luck with them lately.

specialK

ok, OP describes this LAG as a "good player" i think that if he has more behind on the flop you can fold to his 3 bet. definately for me when he leads out for 50 i would be thinking two pair, maybe top pair, but since he's described as a good player would definately be aware of the fact he may be getting tricky and this would lean me more towards 2 pair. the unfortunate thing is that you pretty well have to raise this regardless of what you think, and he doesn't have very much behind so you are basically playing for the rest of his chips. but if he did 3 bet me with more behind i think you can fold.