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Very brief tournament report.
I just got back from a private NL tournament that had--I believe--about 35 or so players. The buy-in was $100+$50, and the rebuys were $50 in the first four rounds, for half the starting chips. A player could rebuy in these rounds whenever he ran out of chips completely. Also, at the end of the rebuy period, players could add-on--regardless of stack size--half the starting chips for $50.
The blinds were oppressive. Deceptively oppressive, though, in that you're kind of cruising along in the first couple of rounds going 'this isn't bad, lots of play here' and then *BAM* 'how is it that I'm shortstacked all of a sudden?'
By the fourth round, I realized it was getting to be bingo time already, so I moved in (in most cases, for quite a few chips, relatively) with my best three starting hands to that point: 44, AJ, and AT. I got beat by Q7, J9, and Q8 respectively. The good news is that I've started to let this stuff roll over me like mist in the morning over a tranquil pond, so I feel OK.
But, I have to describe a terrible, terrible beat. Far worse than any I suffered. I apologize for posting a 'bad beat story', but it didn't happen to me, and yes, it's that bad.
3 callers for 200 each and the button raises to 500. All 3 of the callers, plus the big blind, call the raise. 5 to the flop:
Flop: 3:spade: 5:spade: T
. Checked to the button who moves in for the approx. 900 or so he has left. Only a middle position player calls, with a stack just larger than the button's.
MP: Q:diamond: 6:spade:
Button: A A:spade:
Turn: 2:spade:
River: 4:spade: giving the button a straight flush, five high, and the middle position player a straight flush, 6 high. A one-outer. Yes, they happen, but I was dealing for the table, and let me tell you, it doesn't feel good to say: "only the four of spades can help you" to the MP player, and then burning a card, and putting up the four of spades on the river. While the entire room erupted, I must have spent about 30 seconds or so with my hands covering my head, and my head on the table, repeating "No. No. No. No."
I may post a bit more about this tournament in the near future. It was interesting because it was well-organized, but at the same time, it had some *absolutely insane* players, and a very aggressive blind structure. I guess the blind structure would have to be kind of aggressive, though... with 35 players, rebuys, and add-ons, there are a lot of chips in play. Unless you want the thing to last 8 or 9 hours, you have to start eliminating players fairly quickly.
Sorry if this post went nowhere. If I think of anything else to say that's not about bad beats, I will try to make it go somewhere, instead.
Regards,
all_aces
The blinds were oppressive. Deceptively oppressive, though, in that you're kind of cruising along in the first couple of rounds going 'this isn't bad, lots of play here' and then *BAM* 'how is it that I'm shortstacked all of a sudden?'
By the fourth round, I realized it was getting to be bingo time already, so I moved in (in most cases, for quite a few chips, relatively) with my best three starting hands to that point: 44, AJ, and AT. I got beat by Q7, J9, and Q8 respectively. The good news is that I've started to let this stuff roll over me like mist in the morning over a tranquil pond, so I feel OK.
But, I have to describe a terrible, terrible beat. Far worse than any I suffered. I apologize for posting a 'bad beat story', but it didn't happen to me, and yes, it's that bad.
3 callers for 200 each and the button raises to 500. All 3 of the callers, plus the big blind, call the raise. 5 to the flop:
Flop: 3:spade: 5:spade: T
. Checked to the button who moves in for the approx. 900 or so he has left. Only a middle position player calls, with a stack just larger than the button's.MP: Q:diamond: 6:spade:
Button: A
A:spade:Turn: 2:spade:
River: 4:spade: giving the button a straight flush, five high, and the middle position player a straight flush, 6 high. A one-outer. Yes, they happen, but I was dealing for the table, and let me tell you, it doesn't feel good to say: "only the four of spades can help you" to the MP player, and then burning a card, and putting up the four of spades on the river. While the entire room erupted, I must have spent about 30 seconds or so with my hands covering my head, and my head on the table, repeating "No. No. No. No."
I may post a bit more about this tournament in the near future. It was interesting because it was well-organized, but at the same time, it had some *absolutely insane* players, and a very aggressive blind structure. I guess the blind structure would have to be kind of aggressive, though... with 35 players, rebuys, and add-ons, there are a lot of chips in play. Unless you want the thing to last 8 or 9 hours, you have to start eliminating players fairly quickly.
Sorry if this post went nowhere. If I think of anything else to say that's not about bad beats, I will try to make it go somewhere, instead.
Regards,
all_aces
Comments
Hammer
I'd like to emphasize that this tournament was *extremely* well-run. There was a TD balancing tables, running around during the rebuy period, keeping an eye on the dealers, and watching the clock, etc... The location of the tournament was ideal. Also, players weren't allowed to take their chips off the table and walk around with them, etc... and the chips weren't plastic bicycle chips, so nobody could walk in with a pocketful. Decks of cards were being ripped in half as they were discarded. The payout structure was fair. Basically, it was an excellent tournament in every respect except for its blind structure, IMHO.
1500 starting chips, rebuys of 800 if a player busts out first four levels, one optional add-on for 800 at the end of the rebuy period.
Blinds go up every 20 minutes.
10/25
25/50
50/100
75/150
**** end of rebuy period, optional add-on ****
100/200
150/300
200/400
300/600
**** break ****
400/800
500/1000
1000/1500
1500/3000
**** break ****
2000/4000
and I believe that's as far as the tournament got.
The main problem that I see is that players can only rebuy *if they bust out*, so it's not like everyone can start with 1500 and rebuy immediately for an *additional* 800. Also, the add-on was for 800 instead of matching or slightly exceeding the number of starting chips.
After 40 minutes into the tournament, the blinds were 50/100 when the average stack was probably around 1800 or so.
After an hour of play, they were 75/150 when the average stack was probably around 2100.
This could be easily fixed though, by adding one or two extra levels in the early-ish stages. You don't get a lot of hands in per level in a B&M tourney, but there's not much to be done about that, without making the tournament last *too* long.
Let me know what you think of this structure. It's good, but it feels a bit oppressive, for most players, between levels 3 to 6 or so, I think.
Regards,
all_aces
I personally can't stand a "rebuy only at 0 chips" rule.
As you said, the blind structure seems a little too quick, but not out of this world quick.
The more I play B&M or home game tournaments, the more I come to appreciate just how much more play there is in online tournaments.
ScottyZ
Hammer
Steep? Compared to an online tournament, yes. Compared to a casino tournament, yes. But, from what I understand, this was only enough to cover the costs, and to put a bit (ie: just under $300 each) of cash into each of the two organizer's pockets for their trouble.
I don't think these guys were out to gouge anybody. As a matter of fact, I *know* they weren't. They had to pay for the space, rental chips, rental tables, the hired a dealer, they supplied an excellent meal (veal, potatoes, veggies, very tasty, and a few bottles of wine), they paid for the cards, they had a bartender, and probably a few other less obvious costs that I'm not considering.
That being said, let's take a look at whether or not these types of tournaments will survive, in the long run. I suspect that a lot of these players will return. Some won't. Online tournaments are *much* cheaper to enter, but not as much fun. Casino tournaments are fun, but not frequent (at least not ones with decent blind structures, in my area). Casinos already own the tables, chips, etc... so their costs are mimimal.
The only way I can see a tournament like the one I attended survive in the long run is if they lower their costs, so they can lower their house drop. The only way to lower their costs is to outright buy (or make) hold'em tables, and buy chips, and buy Kem cards (which are re-usable). The initial start-up cost would be high, but they'd pay it off, tournament by tournament, until it was covered completely. They could eliminate food from the deal if that's a significant cost, and lower the house drop that way, too.
Like I said, it would take a lot of money to start it up, but renting this stuff--much like renting an apartment--is just throwing money away *if* you're planning to continue hosting these tournaments over a long period of time. The space is ideal, and I don't think it's too pricey. There's an excellent opportunity here for a regular, local, live multi-table NL tournament, but the house drop has to lower if they want to keep getting people out.
And the only way to do that is to bite the bullet and buy their supplies, and gradually pay them off, tournament by tournament, until they eventually start showing a regular, decent profit for their efforts. I applaud these guys for putting in the time and effort to try to fill a much-needed hole in the local poker scene, and I think that with a bit of tweaking, it could be profitable for them in the long-run, at a reasonable cost to the players.
Regards,
all_aces