Hand for Analysys

Ventrick

So I finally had some free time tonight so sat in the Pacific 15+1.50 10K Guarenteed. 730 people started we were down to about 300 left. Cards had been running really cold all night, I hadn't shown down a single hand yet, nor did I want to with my cards but I was sitting with about an average stack of 1600TC with a few bluffs that paid off. (Best cards up to this point were 22, J10 :diamond: , KJ ) Starting chips were 800.

I'm dealt A9 :spade: on the button. Blinds are 50/100. 2 players in front of me (both Mid position) call, I raise it to 200 and both the blinds fold, two previous callers call.

Flop comes 7 :spade: 8 :spade: 8

Both Mid positions check to me and I bet the pot (750TC) to either buy it right there or worst case catch my flush and beat anyone with the 8.

First mid position folds, Second check raises me going all in. I have him covered but only by 100 chips. I figure he's probably got the 8, but I'm pot commited and it's going to cost me 450 to the 1950TC in the Pot. So I call. He flips 8 :diamond: K

Turn comes J :spade: giving me my Nut flush, river comes K :club: giving him the boat and crippling me.

Guy says "See Yah"
I say "Heh least I hit my flush:P"
Guy says "I saw the outcome of that hand before the flop, you can see it sometimes"
I think to myself "Yeah just keep patting yourself on the head calling a raise pre-flop with K8o while out of position."

Any input would be appreciated.

Big J

Don't really see what else you could have done...you didn't want to give a free card to anyone else that was on a draw so your bet was good, and when the J came on the turn you probabbly would have commited all you chips to the hand anyway, he hit 1 of 3 cards in the deck that would save him, it happens, that's poker.

ScottyZ

Big J wrote:

you didn't want to give a free card to anyone else that was on a draw so your bet was good

Huh? The bettor (Ventrick) was the one on the draw, not the opponent.

Any input would be appreciated.

Okay. I'd simply limp in on the flop. Save raising the minimum for limit tourneys. You don't have a raising hand here.

I'd check the flop. You desperately want that free card that the K8 is *very* incorrectly giving you.

Push all-in when you make your hand on the turn. You want to overbet the pot here to protect your hand, but betting as little as 2*Pot commits you to calling the river anyway (on a non-disaster card, e.g. 8,7,J), so you might as well just stack in on the turn. If the K8 calls you here, he makes an enormous FTOP mistake. If you are already losing on the turn, then that's that.

Some people might like trying a more fancy turn/river play instead in order to extract some more value, and I can see the merits to that as well. The paired board worries me personally, but not *too* much.

I figure he's probably got the 8, but I'm pot commited and it's going to cost me 450 to the 1950TC in the Pot.

You are in fact pot-committed, but surprisingly, it's close (if you put him on the 8). You're calling 23% of the pot size with a 28% chance of winning the hand assuming he has 8x (other than 87 obviously).

ScottyZ

Tilter

Got to agree with Scotty on this. Limit raises mean nothing if I made a call on the flop already (I may only fold on the blinds, unless it is a LP and I may call). As mentioned, free card is your best bet, someone is most likely slowplaying trips and you want them to pay dearly. Just my opinion.

BBC Z

Guy says "I saw the outcome of that hand before the flop, you can see it sometimes"

I have that happen all the time to me on pacific.. if I've got the current nuts and put someone all-in on a backdoor flush draw, I know the two suits are hitting the turn and river as soon as he shows his cards.

Chugs

you played it right, but it was a tough situation

If you hadn't bet, more than likely the guy with K8o comes in with a solid bet. If he's smart he sees a board that is primed for possible flush and straight draws. He needs to bet hard to push people out. That's my view but as scotty said, he may try to slowplay it.

ScottyZ

I think I may have caused some confusion when I included some hypothetical situations based on alternative plays in my reply. Check the original post carefully for how the actual hand went.

In the actual hand, most of the money goes in on the *flop*. And it's also important that the K8 has already acted (checked) on the flop, and Ventrick is in last position with the action checked to him.

ScottyZ

Ventrick

I thought about just calling pre-flop, but that wouldn't give me any information on any of the hands involved, figured a small raise would show me what's out there while still keeping it easy to let my hand go if my flop didn't hit.

After the flop was checked to me I did think for about 15 seconds pondering whether to check or raise with my draw. But since I was the one who raised pre-flop I didn't want to show weakness by simply checking here, I wanted to represent that I was stronger then my Nut Flush Draw.