If you're going to limp with aces...

Unknown

... you better be willing to fold them on the flop if the preflop action remains unraised.

That's what was going through my head on this hand... am I giving the player in the SB too much credit? (Not much info. on SB... hasn't been overly aggressive or passive, kinda typical.)

PokerStars Game #7291808421: Tournament #36701742, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/12/03 - 23:32:14 (ET)
Table '36701742 12' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: buzzy415 (3820 in chips)
Seat 2: MarlonMotors (525 in chips)
Seat 3: __2cb__ (1620 in chips)
Seat 4: inverse12 (1910 in chips)
Seat 5: redrooski24 (1625 in chips)
Seat 6: NOXQZEZ (1310 in chips)
Seat 7: XXLRSGXX (1433 in chips)
Seat 8: all aces (1995 in chips)
Seat 9: crackchad (1672 in chips)
NOXQZEZ: posts small blind 25
XXLRSGXX: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to all aces [Ad As]
all aces: calls 50
crackchad: folds
buzzy415: calls 50
MarlonMotors: folds
__2cb__: calls 50
inverse12: calls 50
redrooski24: folds
NOXQZEZ: calls 25
XXLRSGXX: checks
*** FLOP *** [4h 4d 2s]
NOXQZEZ: checks
XXLRSGXX: checks
all aces: bets 200
buzzy415: folds
__2cb__: folds
inverse12: calls 200
NOXQZEZ: raises 400 to 600
XXLRSGXX: folds
all aces: folds
inverse12: folds
NOXQZEZ collected 900 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 900 | Rake 0
Board [4h 4d 2s]
Seat 1: buzzy415 folded on the Flop
Seat 2: MarlonMotors folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: __2cb__ folded on the Flop
Seat 4: inverse12 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: redrooski24 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: NOXQZEZ (small blind) collected (900)
Seat 7: XXLRSGXX (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: all aces folded on the Flop
Seat 9: crackchad folded before Flop (didn't bet)

SirWatts

I rarely limp aces this early in a tournament since too often you get that chain of limpers. But yeah definitely a fold there.

Unknown

Good point... a lot of people are looking to see cheap flops at this stage of a tournament. I'll save the limping with aces for later next time.

g2

Just curious, but if you're going to play your aces tricky pre-flop, why lead out on the flop?

.......

Correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming the answer is something like 'to see where I'm at', I personally would raise you with a 2 with a decent kicker, or even 35 (open ended) in LP here. So, IMO, leading out on the flop would not really tell you where you're at.

So I guess I'm saying, yes, I think you are giving the SB too much credit.

/g2

Unknown

A fair question, to be sure. Preflop, I was planning on limp/re-raising anyway, so the play wasn't about disguising the strength of my hand until the turn. Especially against 5 opponents, as it turned out!

If I know the pot is going to be heads-up, I'm more than happy to limp preflop, let my lone opponent raise me, just call, and then check/call the flop, and check-raise or bet out on the turn. This is a fine play if I can get it heads-up (particularly with big blinds) but my intention here wasn't to slowplay... it was to get some limped chips into the pot and then get it heads-up with a limp/re-raise opportunity that unfortunately didn't present itself.

g2

Fair enough, but when that didn't happen, why just give up on the hand?

/g2

Unknown

If you're going to limp with aces preflop, you have to be able and willing to fold them if the flop and the action on the flop doesn't make you feel very comfortable. It's kind of the same as playing small and medium suited connectors... don't play them if you can't fold a measly flopped pair against some heavy betting.

Replika

The only time I would limp with aces in early position is if I noticed the table was very aggressive and there was a preflop raise pretty much every hand. Even then I would probloby put in some kind of a raise (like a minimum raise) to discourage action from mediocre hands.

It would also depend on how I've been playing up to that point. If I have been limping into a lot of pots and folding passively to raises in late position I might try a limp in this situation as well. Also, if I have been aggressive up to that point, I might try a raise as it would probobly get action from someone who has noticed that I have been raising a lot.

All in all, I think there are valid arguments for limping and for raising in this situation depending on the context of how the action at the table has been going. Sometimes pocket aces lose no matter what you do preflop. At least you had the sense to fold them when you knew you were beaten. A lot of players would've lost a lot more chips in that situation.