Is it simply a pot odds decision against Ax?
Online players are bad, just plain bad......they'll chase with Ax sooooo often.
To often I find myself opening with a raise holding TT-KK and the flop will come down something like 36A....talking limit poker by the way.
Usually if I'm first to act and bet the donk will call me down to the river and show his Ax to take the pot, no biggie such is life at the micro limit tables...but what do you do if the donk caller is in EP and leads out with a bet? Do you give them credit for being straight forward and having the A?
Are you losing too much $$$ giving him credit for a weak A and folding if the pot is small? (say 2-3 players only) or are you bleeding too much calling them down only to confirm your suspicion?
Vague question I know....just wondering what thought processes people use in this type of situation?
I've tried re-raising representing a big A but at this level of limit poker they'll mostly call you down anyways...and calling them down ends up bleeding $$$ away...I'm thinking with only a few people in the pot likely it's best just to give up the hand, with more people in the pot you may have better odds but you have a higher chance someone does have the A so again it may be best just to dump it? I just don't think at low level limit poker you can really be tricky or give anyone else credit for playing solid poker? I think the majority of the time at this level the bet pretty much means they have something.
To often I find myself opening with a raise holding TT-KK and the flop will come down something like 36A....talking limit poker by the way.
Usually if I'm first to act and bet the donk will call me down to the river and show his Ax to take the pot, no biggie such is life at the micro limit tables...but what do you do if the donk caller is in EP and leads out with a bet? Do you give them credit for being straight forward and having the A?
Are you losing too much $$$ giving him credit for a weak A and folding if the pot is small? (say 2-3 players only) or are you bleeding too much calling them down only to confirm your suspicion?
Vague question I know....just wondering what thought processes people use in this type of situation?
I've tried re-raising representing a big A but at this level of limit poker they'll mostly call you down anyways...and calling them down ends up bleeding $$$ away...I'm thinking with only a few people in the pot likely it's best just to give up the hand, with more people in the pot you may have better odds but you have a higher chance someone does have the A so again it may be best just to dump it? I just don't think at low level limit poker you can really be tricky or give anyone else credit for playing solid poker? I think the majority of the time at this level the bet pretty much means they have something.
Comments
I suggest reading Phil Gordon's "Little" books....
I find they're giving a great amount of insight into cash game play. In this case, say you have QQ, raised (limit) pre-flop and got 2 callers (reasonable).
Flop: A - J - 4 rainbow
Let's say you were even in position.. if it was checked to you, i would bet out at this, see if I can get them off. If I get a caller, I give them credit, there's no realistic draws, so what could they possibly have? If I get re-raised, I'm beat again, so it's an easy laydown.
Funny thing is, let's say the flop was
J - 9 - 4
I play it almost the same way, since I "only" have 1 pair... the best advice I've heard in a while - small hand, small pot, big hand big pot.
You're a good player... better than most online. The secret to the game isn't pure aggression, it's selective aggression. For every 2-3 BB you lose in the PF raise with the continuation bet, you'll win 12-14 when you hit your big hands.
Let them win the battles, the war will be yours.
Mark
When the ace hits unless I've got 2pr or better I'm in check call mode esp Brantford 2/5 where any 2 cards will do for most players.
You play QQ on a J94 flop the same way you play it on an AJ4 flop in a LHE game? No offense, but you have vastly stronger hand in on flop a) than you do on flop b).
Back to the original question: It's read dependant. Does he donk out with monsters, as a bluff, with a semi weak hand (by semi-weak, is this a worse pair, or a weak ace?). Does he lead out as a semibluff with draws? Does the flop HAVE any draws? Do you have any backdoor draws? How big is the pot? Is it headsup or multiway? All questions to think about...
In general, you probably shouldn't fight over the small pots (especially without any sort of redraws). And you shouldn't be calling down passive players.
Higher odds, but remember, generally you're drawing to only 2 outs to improve (unless you have some type of backdoor draw or straight draw). As you pointed out, with more people in the pot, the chances that you're beaten increases, and as well, with more people in the pot the pot is generally protected (ie. someone leading out in EP into 4 players PROBABLY isn't on a pure bluff). They should expect at least 1-2 callers. Conversely in a headsup situation, an aggressive opponent may well take a shot at the pot.
yeah, this is pretty much what I do.
I have to respectfully disagree here Mark, I'm betting this all the way, depending on possbile draws, pre-flop action, and if they come back over the top then maybe I slow down into check-call but I'd need a very good reason not to jam QQ on this flop.
Thanks and good advice.
Very good point, thank you!
What I meant when I said with QQ and the flop of J-9-4 is that I play it "almost" the same in that I would raise again. If I got called, I would be worried since they probably have a piece of it (likely the J). So what would the call with? A PF raise and then a bet on that flop... well given the quality of online players, I'd say they would call with
AJ (though they should have raised PF, but may not have)
KJ
QJ
J10
109
98
The hands that can make a straight
Any of these hands and I'm happy. If I get re-raised, the hands I likely put them on are
AJ
J9
set (44 / 99, very unlikely JJ)
Outside chance of semi-bluff for the straight
So, if they just call, the turn card is going to make this hand very interesting. I would bet again if it was checked to me, since this is limit and now we're on the "more expensive" bet. But if I just get called, I'm not too confident, and if I get raised, I'm pretty sure I'm beat and my hand's not likely to improve. If they bet out at me on the turn card, it would depend on what that card was (K/A scares me, another J scares me, and maybe even another 9 - not to mention the straight possibilities). If it was a useless 2, 3, etc.... I may just call, but one of the scare cards, I may have to give up the hand.
Of course, all this is read-dependant blah blah blah
Mark