Hand for Discussion
Here is a rather interesting hand that occured when I was playing $.25/.5 NL and was wondering some of your thoughts about how I played and how the hand played out in general.
Full Tilt Poker Game #1255878813: Table Wengert - $0.25/$0.50 - No
Limit Hold'em
Seat 1: yandigs ($37.25)
Seat 2: Moleafsmo ($57.15)
Seat 3: Smooth_Michelle ($42.05)
Seat 4: Gebka ($52.80)
Seat 5: pretender999 ($28.40)
Seat 6: MITPokah ($14.75)
Seat 7: devourer ($51.70)
Seat 8: Alpert21 ($13.15)
Seat 9: BigChrisEl ($42.65)
Alpert21 posts the small blind of $0.25
BigChrisEl posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BigChrisEl [Qh 7h]
yandigs folds
Moleafsmo folds
Smooth_Michelle folds
Gebka calls $0.50
pretender999 calls $0.50 - Weak player, limps a lot then folds off the flop. Tends to play lots of A-Rag or connected cards
MITPokah folds
devourer calls $0.50 - No good read, hasn’t shown down a hand, not involved in too many pots, but when he is he plays them pretty aggressively. His limp seems odd to me
Alpert21 calls $0.25
BigChrisEl checks
*** FLOP *** [9h 3h 9s]
Alpert21 checks
BigChrisEl checks
Gebka checks
pretender999 bets $0.50 - I don’t believe he has a 9, maybe a 3 with an ace kicker
devourer calls $0.50 - Still not sure what this guy is doing
Alpert21 folds
Gebka is sitting out
BigChrisEl raises to $2.50 - I figure I could take the pot down here or if I get called I will get 2 free cards out of it
Gebka folds
pretender999 raises to $4.50 - Unexpected move, this is a min re-raise, my gut tells me this is a defensive move and he still has a 3.
devourer calls $4 - Now I’m really confused here
BigChrisEl calls $2 - I figure I have odds to call,$2 into a $14 pot, 7 to 1 on my money here
Pot is $16
*** TURN *** [9h 3h 9s] [7c]
BigChrisEl checks - I seriously think my 7 is good here, but I want to see what the players behind me are going to do.
pretender999 bets $8.50 - I still think he is on a 3 with an ace and is thinking this bet will send the rest of us away.
devourer calls $8.50 - Still not sure what this guy is up to, beginning to think he has a 9
Pot is $33
BigChrisEl calls $8.50 - I’m getting almost 4 to 1 (3.8 to 1) on my money, I’m thinking my 7 is good, plus any heart will give me the flush which I feel will win me the pot.
*** RIVER *** [9h 3h 9s 7c] [8h]
BigChrisEl checks - The 8 is a trouble card for me, the possibility that one of them limped with 9-8 is now crawling into my head making a full house to beat my flush. I want to see what the others are going to do.
pretender999 checks - That was unexpected
devourer bets $15 - This is unexpected as well.
BigChrisEl calls $15 - I have to call $15 into a $56.5 pot, pretender999 has only $15. I getting 3.8 to 1 on my money here, plus I think pretender999 is going to call as well so I call.
pretender999 folds - Not what I expected again
*** SHOW DOWN ***
devourer shows [4h 6h] (a flush, Nine high)
BigChrisEl shows [Qh 7h] (a flush, Queen high)
BigChrisEl wins the pot ($68.50) with a flush, Queen high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $71.50 | Rake $3
Board: [9h 3h 9s 7c 8h]
Seat 1: yandigs didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Moleafsmo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Smooth_Michelle didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Gebka folded on the Flop
Seat 5: pretender999 folded on the River
Seat 6: MITPokah didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: devourer (button) showed [4h 6h] and lost with a flush, Nine high
Seat 8: Alpert21 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: BigChrisEl (big blind) showed [Qh 7h] and won ($68.50) with a flush, Queen high
The Best Part, the Next hand:
devourer: fu
devourer stands up
Full Tilt Poker Game #1255878813: Table Wengert - $0.25/$0.50 - No
Limit Hold'em
Seat 1: yandigs ($37.25)
Seat 2: Moleafsmo ($57.15)
Seat 3: Smooth_Michelle ($42.05)
Seat 4: Gebka ($52.80)
Seat 5: pretender999 ($28.40)
Seat 6: MITPokah ($14.75)
Seat 7: devourer ($51.70)
Seat 8: Alpert21 ($13.15)
Seat 9: BigChrisEl ($42.65)
Alpert21 posts the small blind of $0.25
BigChrisEl posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BigChrisEl [Qh 7h]
yandigs folds
Moleafsmo folds
Smooth_Michelle folds
Gebka calls $0.50
pretender999 calls $0.50 - Weak player, limps a lot then folds off the flop. Tends to play lots of A-Rag or connected cards
MITPokah folds
devourer calls $0.50 - No good read, hasn’t shown down a hand, not involved in too many pots, but when he is he plays them pretty aggressively. His limp seems odd to me
Alpert21 calls $0.25
BigChrisEl checks
*** FLOP *** [9h 3h 9s]
Alpert21 checks
BigChrisEl checks
Gebka checks
pretender999 bets $0.50 - I don’t believe he has a 9, maybe a 3 with an ace kicker
devourer calls $0.50 - Still not sure what this guy is doing
Alpert21 folds
Gebka is sitting out
BigChrisEl raises to $2.50 - I figure I could take the pot down here or if I get called I will get 2 free cards out of it
Gebka folds
pretender999 raises to $4.50 - Unexpected move, this is a min re-raise, my gut tells me this is a defensive move and he still has a 3.
devourer calls $4 - Now I’m really confused here
BigChrisEl calls $2 - I figure I have odds to call,$2 into a $14 pot, 7 to 1 on my money here
Pot is $16
*** TURN *** [9h 3h 9s] [7c]
BigChrisEl checks - I seriously think my 7 is good here, but I want to see what the players behind me are going to do.
pretender999 bets $8.50 - I still think he is on a 3 with an ace and is thinking this bet will send the rest of us away.
devourer calls $8.50 - Still not sure what this guy is up to, beginning to think he has a 9
Pot is $33
BigChrisEl calls $8.50 - I’m getting almost 4 to 1 (3.8 to 1) on my money, I’m thinking my 7 is good, plus any heart will give me the flush which I feel will win me the pot.
*** RIVER *** [9h 3h 9s 7c] [8h]
BigChrisEl checks - The 8 is a trouble card for me, the possibility that one of them limped with 9-8 is now crawling into my head making a full house to beat my flush. I want to see what the others are going to do.
pretender999 checks - That was unexpected
devourer bets $15 - This is unexpected as well.
BigChrisEl calls $15 - I have to call $15 into a $56.5 pot, pretender999 has only $15. I getting 3.8 to 1 on my money here, plus I think pretender999 is going to call as well so I call.
pretender999 folds - Not what I expected again
*** SHOW DOWN ***
devourer shows [4h 6h] (a flush, Nine high)
BigChrisEl shows [Qh 7h] (a flush, Queen high)
BigChrisEl wins the pot ($68.50) with a flush, Queen high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $71.50 | Rake $3
Board: [9h 3h 9s 7c 8h]
Seat 1: yandigs didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Moleafsmo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Smooth_Michelle didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Gebka folded on the Flop
Seat 5: pretender999 folded on the River
Seat 6: MITPokah didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: devourer (button) showed [4h 6h] and lost with a flush, Nine high
Seat 8: Alpert21 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: BigChrisEl (big blind) showed [Qh 7h] and won ($68.50) with a flush, Queen high
The Best Part, the Next hand:
devourer: fu
devourer stands up
Comments
The odds you are getting to make the $8.50 call are provided by the fact that you have a second caller - meaning you have to consider if the flush hits you are beat.
If you feel he is on a worse flush draw (as he was) you have to take into consideration that you are now missing 2 of your outs - giving the wrong odds to call.
This one may be the Omaha player in me - but if you feel the other player has a set - the chance of him filling up as you hit your flush also removes a number of outs.
I dont like playing multiway draws unless I am drawing to the nuts or near nuts.
In this situation you arent - for all you knew on the flop you were already drawing dead against a made boat or more likely a better flush draw.
I would wait to get my money in where I know I am good.
You are drawing to hit your hand and get even bet it when it hits because you dont know if you have the best of it.
I felt this hand really spun out of control. I felt pretty confident in my reads but the betting got really heavy (more then I really wanted). I didn't want to fall into the 'monsters under the bed' syndrome.
I do feel that I did play this hand wrong.
I wonder what pretender999 had. I would think with the amount of money he put in the pot that he would call his last $15 if he actually had trip 9's.
I was totally surprised by devourer weak flush.
I remain steadfast in my decision.
Mostly because in these games players will often limp in with any suited ace - and this scenario played out exactly like someone with a suited ace.
Probably because you chose to raise the flop. While I'd do this in position almost always in a limit game, in NL it's much more dangerous to re-open the betting since you can be pushed off your draw with a big reraise. I think I'd flat call the flop, closing the betting here (the tight player just calling the flop is often going to be either a flush draw or a slowplayed 9, so I prefer keeping the pot small, especially considering the fact the board is paired which introduces redraws against you if someone has a 9).
And so Tom should, this isn't really a 'monsters under the bed' situation..this is more akin to putting on a blindfold and running into oncoming traffic. I'm really glad it worked out for the best but the advice already given is excellent, and I only want to add one small thing..
You suggested that the check-raise on the flop might earn you freecards..I don't think thats likely-you've revealed your hand to be strong by check-raising the flop, you negate that when you back down to callers and check the turn. If I were the 4/6h (straight and flush draw) I'd smell an opportunity to take this pot and would more than bet you out of it on the turn.