The biggest mistake they can make is learning to get better, it cuts down on my profit!
Otherwise everyone is bang on....
1. Overplaying hands like AK
2. playing garbage like Ax, Kx, etc, particularly out of position.
3. not playing position
4. chasing or conversely not drawing when offered odds to do so.
5. seeing monsters under the bed.
6. playing a hand one way instead of adjusting street to street, ie) if they make a mistake by calling they may auto-fold reagrdless of if they may now have odds to draw...or worse they pound away at a hand that may have been best pre-flop but now some scare cards come and they don't pick up betting patterns that tell them they could be in trouble.
Seriously, table/seat selection is a big beginner mistake. Playing a table which is too tight/loose for your style/skill (or a bad seat at an otherwise good table) can cause a lot of early losses for a newbie.
2. playing garbage like Ax, Kx, etc, particularly out of position.
I guess it depends on the situation, but I wouldn't say this is a complete mistake. I think as long as you can outplay your opponents post-flop, it's a very valuable tool. A lot of the times, it's how you play it that makes you the most $$.
1) This may sound strange, but most of the errors mentioned, and many, many more stem from the number one error of most beginners and many more experienced players is "wanting to play poker". This goes with discpline.
2) tilt -- defined as not playing to the best of their knowlege
3) focusing on how they can win.
5) thinking poker is intuitive.
6) inability to adjust their thinking through a hand (big e covered this)
7) not realizing there are many decisions which lead to winning which have nothing to do with the actual hands -- seat selection, table selection, bankroll, limits, mental state, when to start, when to quit, etc. etc. (beanie covered part of this)
8) not realizing poker is a game of mistakes
9) not analazing their play in an unbiased manner -- using selective memory
10) not learning from the better players on the table
Just a few off the top of my head... And fwiw, this is primarily based in terms of FL ring as NL ring and tourneys I play much less frequently.
First of all, I'm going to break down beginners into "Stage 1" (very new, and very clueless) and "Stage 2" (they grasp just enough to think they know more than they really do)
Stage 1:
1. Play far too loose with no consideration of position.
2. Cold-call too much (don't adjust their starting requirements to unraised and raised pots).
3. Think too much in terms of absolute hand strength and not in terms of pot equity (I think this applies to Stage 2's as well).
Stage 2:
1. Overestimate the correlation of results with good play and don't have a good idea of how much variance plays a factor.
2. Probably overestimate their post-flop "ability" and thus justify playing hands that are probably -EV.
3. Focus too much on their "impeccable" reads and sometimes try to make incorrect "heroic" laydowns when the pot size dictates otherwise.
4. Lack of hand analysis skills. People will randomly either drastically change their perceived "range" of their opponent's holding based on a certain card, or will cling to an earlier range they had their opponent based on their earlier "read". They can basically see part "A" (for example preflop and flop action) and part "B" (turn and river action) but they can't put the two together.
I guess it depends on the situation, but I wouldn't say this is a complete mistake. I think as long as you can outplay your opponents post-flop, it's a very valuable tool. A lot of the times, it's how you play it that makes you the most $$.
Perhaps I should have just removed the word 'particularly'? Yes, you are right these hands can work but we are talking about beginners here and I firmly believe a 'beginner' should not play these hands regardless of position it can make post flop play very difficult and until you have some experience under your belt I think it's best to just not play them....even with experience you have to be careful....so I think in reference to strictly a 'beginner' this most definitely a mistake.....otherwise you are correct sir.
I think most of the weaknesses have been said (over playing AK, loving suited Aces or Ace-rags, etc.),
One thing however that most of these weaknesses don't always apply to new/beginner players. I routinely see players who have been playing for a long time fall into the same problems, loving their AK, A-Rag, refusing to fold once they put money into the pot, calling on the end when they know they are beat just to see it and so on, and I think most people are temped to fall into this problems.
Over playing their hands in the Blinds. This is where I've been hemoraging lately.
Definitely playing any ace from any position. Lost to A-rag with QQ/JJ/TT last night. The donk cold calls 3 bets with A-3 and hits a full house on the flop.
Last night on Party, got dealt AKo four times in a row. I have no idea what the odds of that are, but I ended up folding 3 of 4 on the turn, and the other time I lost when my tptk got beat by someone playing Ace Rag and hitting his second pair on the river.
Learning to fold the bigger hands early is a tough lesson.
Creating Plays - rather than waiting for the right opportunity, every hand is an opportunity to outplay your opponent. Usually results in getting beat while saying "I can't believe you called 400 with xx".
Slow Playing - slow playing too much, Hit TPTK or 2 pair and waiting until the river to bet on draw heavy boards.
Optomism - This is one that I remember myself doing a lot before. Valuing runner runner as a reason to chase. "If 2 hearts falls, I'll be laughing, I gotta call this".
Comments
IE
Pocket Queens with an Ace on the flop.
Over valueing any Big A
Drawing without getting odds.
Otherwise everyone is bang on....
1. Overplaying hands like AK
2. playing garbage like Ax, Kx, etc, particularly out of position.
3. not playing position
4. chasing or conversely not drawing when offered odds to do so.
5. seeing monsters under the bed.
6. playing a hand one way instead of adjusting street to street, ie) if they make a mistake by calling they may auto-fold reagrdless of if they may now have odds to draw...or worse they pound away at a hand that may have been best pre-flop but now some scare cards come and they don't pick up betting patterns that tell them they could be in trouble.
Seriously, table/seat selection is a big beginner mistake. Playing a table which is too tight/loose for your style/skill (or a bad seat at an otherwise good table) can cause a lot of early losses for a newbie.
I guess it depends on the situation, but I wouldn't say this is a complete mistake. I think as long as you can outplay your opponents post-flop, it's a very valuable tool. A lot of the times, it's how you play it that makes you the most $$.
Maybe they will be at the same table as the WSOP monkey?
1) This may sound strange, but most of the errors mentioned, and many, many more stem from the number one error of most beginners and many more experienced players is "wanting to play poker". This goes with discpline.
2) tilt -- defined as not playing to the best of their knowlege
3) focusing on how they can win.
5) thinking poker is intuitive.
6) inability to adjust their thinking through a hand (big e covered this)
7) not realizing there are many decisions which lead to winning which have nothing to do with the actual hands -- seat selection, table selection, bankroll, limits, mental state, when to start, when to quit, etc. etc. (beanie covered part of this)
8) not realizing poker is a game of mistakes
9) not analazing their play in an unbiased manner -- using selective memory
10) not learning from the better players on the table
Cheers
Magi
/g2
P.S. The 4s have been removed from magi's deck.
First of all, I'm going to break down beginners into "Stage 1" (very new, and very clueless) and "Stage 2" (they grasp just enough to think they know more than they really do)
Stage 1:
1. Play far too loose with no consideration of position.
2. Cold-call too much (don't adjust their starting requirements to unraised and raised pots).
3. Think too much in terms of absolute hand strength and not in terms of pot equity (I think this applies to Stage 2's as well).
Stage 2:
1. Overestimate the correlation of results with good play and don't have a good idea of how much variance plays a factor.
2. Probably overestimate their post-flop "ability" and thus justify playing hands that are probably -EV.
3. Focus too much on their "impeccable" reads and sometimes try to make incorrect "heroic" laydowns when the pot size dictates otherwise.
4. Lack of hand analysis skills. People will randomly either drastically change their perceived "range" of their opponent's holding based on a certain card, or will cling to an earlier range they had their opponent based on their earlier "read". They can basically see part "A" (for example preflop and flop action) and part "B" (turn and river action) but they can't put the two together.
I love this comment Lou, it sums it up perfectly...make less mistakes then your opponents and give your opponents the chance to make mistakes!
p.s. the Lucky Lou front has been quiet lately....anything on the horizon? I enjoyed watching you on TV tho!
Perhaps I should have just removed the word 'particularly'? Yes, you are right these hands can work but we are talking about beginners here and I firmly believe a 'beginner' should not play these hands regardless of position it can make post flop play very difficult and until you have some experience under your belt I think it's best to just not play them....even with experience you have to be careful....so I think in reference to strictly a 'beginner' this most definitely a mistake.....otherwise you are correct sir.
Kryptonite.....
Silver Bullets....
Crosses....
Holy Water....
I think most of the weaknesses have been said (over playing AK, loving suited Aces or Ace-rags, etc.),
One thing however that most of these weaknesses don't always apply to new/beginner players. I routinely see players who have been playing for a long time fall into the same problems, loving their AK, A-Rag, refusing to fold once they put money into the pot, calling on the end when they know they are beat just to see it and so on, and I think most people are temped to fall into this problems.
Definitely playing any ace from any position. Lost to A-rag with QQ/JJ/TT last night. The donk cold calls 3 bets with A-3 and hits a full house on the flop.
Learning to fold the bigger hands early is a tough lesson.
Slow Playing - slow playing too much, Hit TPTK or 2 pair and waiting until the river to bet on draw heavy boards.
Optomism - This is one that I remember myself doing a lot before. Valuing runner runner as a reason to chase. "If 2 hearts falls, I'll be laughing, I gotta call this".
Playing too passively.