Miracle hand, will be interesting discussion
Hello everyone,
I just want to start a VERY interesting post on a poker hand I heard of recently. I will not tell you what the whole cards were until the end. This hand took place at a poker club in Toronto over the past few weeks. I do not have the name of the club, but it DID NOT happen at our club, nor would this ever take place.
Here is the hand, and I would like everyone to put there input.
Ok it is in a very actiony 5/5NL game (I was not there to witness), I do not have all the betting amount details amounts either, they are guesses and I will approxiamate them.
Ok now here is the hand, sorry for the delay.
Ok UTG raises to something like 25, late position reraises to 60, Button calls, blinds fold, and UTG calls. So roughly 190 in pot, and flop is 7 7 10 rainbow, all players check, turn is a 3, still rainbow no chance for a flush UTG bets 75, late position raises to 275, button thinks and gets time called, and eventually folds upset and folds his cards face up he has A 10 suited, UTG then thinks and goes all in, late position instantly calls. NOW, what cards do each player have.................................................
UTG has pocket 7's for quads, and late position has pocket 10's for a boat.
But the dealer didn't hear late position call and mucks the deck into the muck, and the cards get mixed. Clearly the table heard the call and the late position agreed he called. He has a 0% chance to win, since his case 10 is mucked. But they must deal a river so the house says to shuffle the entire muck and burn a card and deal a river, to complete the hand. But after this the dealer peels off the case 10, to give late position quads.
The house after tons of talking and players putting in their opinion award the pot to the quad 10's as he says it was fair.
What do you think of this hand. It sounds made up and at first I thought it was until I heard it from 3 different sources.
I would not be leaving that club without that pot if I had the 7's personally.
Input>?
I just want to start a VERY interesting post on a poker hand I heard of recently. I will not tell you what the whole cards were until the end. This hand took place at a poker club in Toronto over the past few weeks. I do not have the name of the club, but it DID NOT happen at our club, nor would this ever take place.
Here is the hand, and I would like everyone to put there input.
Ok it is in a very actiony 5/5NL game (I was not there to witness), I do not have all the betting amount details amounts either, they are guesses and I will approxiamate them.
Ok now here is the hand, sorry for the delay.
Ok UTG raises to something like 25, late position reraises to 60, Button calls, blinds fold, and UTG calls. So roughly 190 in pot, and flop is 7 7 10 rainbow, all players check, turn is a 3, still rainbow no chance for a flush UTG bets 75, late position raises to 275, button thinks and gets time called, and eventually folds upset and folds his cards face up he has A 10 suited, UTG then thinks and goes all in, late position instantly calls. NOW, what cards do each player have.................................................
UTG has pocket 7's for quads, and late position has pocket 10's for a boat.
But the dealer didn't hear late position call and mucks the deck into the muck, and the cards get mixed. Clearly the table heard the call and the late position agreed he called. He has a 0% chance to win, since his case 10 is mucked. But they must deal a river so the house says to shuffle the entire muck and burn a card and deal a river, to complete the hand. But after this the dealer peels off the case 10, to give late position quads.
The house after tons of talking and players putting in their opinion award the pot to the quad 10's as he says it was fair.
What do you think of this hand. It sounds made up and at first I thought it was until I heard it from 3 different sources.
I would not be leaving that club without that pot if I had the 7's personally.
Input>?
Comments
but barring that..sevens take it.
No way the 7's doesn't walk out of there with money. Either the pot or the house's. I would lay down on the table until I got paid.
Quad 7s r00L!
I do love the fact that you guys are willing to bend the rule when it was intended for this exact situation, yet in my Caesars case, it was a grey area and you wanted to follow the letter of the law in the face of the spirit.
Out of meds around here?
I read this this afternoon, and knowing the rules, I full agree with BBC on this one... dealer error, correct action taken, bad beat.
Should the house make some sort of reparation? Sure! Their dealer messed up (large), but the pot goes to 1010
Mark
Seems like a good reason not to play at Niagara.
If you want to over-ride the written rules in the best interest of the game, you do that out of your (the casino's) pocket, not the player who rightfully should be awarded the pot.
I would be interested in knowing if there were any explicit notes in Robert's Rules about this case where you need to reshuffle the deck but some of the cards are known to be mucked hands. I hadn't really thought about it but it seems like there should be something to clarify this type of situation.
Thanks for beating me to it Trevor :P
The only thing in Robert's I could find is:
If the deck stub gets fouled for some reason, such as the dealer believing the deal is over and dropping the deck, the deal must still be played out, and the deck reconstituted in as fair a way as possible.
So you need a river and it plays, but how to fix the deck is unwritten. In this instance the river was the case 10, meaning the pot was correctly awarded.
It would be "as advertised"...
Rule #1 in our casino (and almost every one I have ever visited) states clearly "...poker room personnel (Table Games Floor Supervisors and above) reserve the right to make decisions that are in the best interest of the game, even though technical interpretation of the rules would dictate a contrary decision. The decision of the Poker Room Manager will be final."
Interestingly, I think I am a very strict, yet fair, supervisor. As this situation is not explicity covered in our rulebook, applying the rule that best covers the scenario, as well as using common sense, in the best interest of the game, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the pocket 10's to draw out, thereby leaving the pocket 7's as the clear(?!?!) winner.
I await your retorts....
I don't think I could, I'd probably- at worst- mix the chips shipped in thoroughly with my own (no changing of minds
I'm curious to see what others would do?
A: If I was in a home game, I'd assume that these people were reasonable and fair people (i.e. my friends) and the quad 7s would win, simply because the dude with 10 10 would realize he was dead, and not bother pressing the issue (I would, and I know many others would too). At worst, they agree to chop the pot. If it was put to me as the guy running the game, 10 10 wins, sorry 7 7.
B: In a casino - well, it's up to the floor guy, not much that can be done. If it were me, I'd probably do as was done, and award the pot to 10 10, however, due to the fact that this 7 7 guy just got beat DIRECTLY due to the dealer, I may offer some form of compensation (meals / comp equalling what he lost).
C: Underground club: Hope nobody has a gun
Mark
"1. Management reserves the right to make decisions in the spirit of fairness, even if a strict interpretation of the rules may indicate a different ruling."
If the rule actually states that TT gets the pot, be damn sure the house should be ponying up an equivalent amount to 77. I don't think the TT can just pass the chips over to 77 without leaving the game first.
This story would have an ironic twist if the house had a bad beat jackpot...