Have at er boys (and girls)...
Wish we had all the old "stars" of the forum back, This would get real interesting real quick...

Can anyone remember them all, Kristy, some of DrTyores favorites... Maybe I could send out personal invites to them all??

Like Milo, BTR, Macke, the couch mover and so many more..
I’ll start it off, I have my bullet proof vest on folks, as long as you treat me with respect, We can have a great conversation. I’m not an anti-Vaxxer or troll like some people on here, but I don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.

Be gentle, I haven’t had my morning smoke, 3 cups of Coffee or my double fat breakfast sandwich yet.
torontotablecpt;c-420446 wroteI’ll start it off, I have my bullet proof vest on folks, as long as you treat me with respect, We can have a great conversation. I’m not an anti-Vaxxer or troll like some people on here, but I don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.

Be gentle, I haven’t had my morning smoke, 3 cups of Coffee or my double fat breakfast sandwich yet.
Ideally, I completely agree with you. However, we don't live in an ideal world sadly. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have people refusing to take a completely safe and free vaccination that has proven to curb serious symptoms and prevent most deaths from a dangerous virus. Also, ideally we wouldn't have to worry about people who refuse the vaccine for whatever reason spreading the virus to others if they actually would isolate if they had symptoms, but many anti-vaxxers refuse to do that also (because, for example, "the virus is a hoax" arguments). On top of that, there is proof that you can have the virus and pass it to others even though you do not show any signs of symptoms. There have literally been people dying in the hospital who have spread the virus to other family members who have already died from it and they are still stating that they have no regrets not getting vaccinated.

Therefore, due to these anti-vaxxers complete denial and pro-vaxxers having literally no way to force anti-vaxxers to protect themselves (and hence everyone else around them), pro-vaxxers only respite is something like a vaccine passport.

Again, I completely agree with you. I don't like the idea of having to share my medical history with people as it is none of their business. However, when it comes down to this is literally the best way to try and protect human life and there are no other meaningful alternatives, then I'll deal with having to share my medical history for vaccinations. I'm all for considering alternatives, but I just can't think of any.
torontotablecpt;c-420446 wroteI don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.
Nailed it. I'm absolutely shocked at how comfortable many people are with creating a "SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING PAPERS" approach to participating in society. It's short term thinking at best.
Bfillmaff;c-420448 wrote
torontotablecpt;c-420446 wroteI don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.
Nailed it. I'm absolutely shocked at how comfortable many people are with creating a "SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING PAPERS" approach to participating in society. It's short term thinking at best.
I actually agree with you too. It is short term thinking because in the short term, people are dying from the virus right now and pro-vaxxers are trying to do whatever they can to stop that from happening. Also consider the covid variants that are coming about due to the anti-vax community spreading the virus between each other - another issue that is happening in the short term that we need to try and stop.

EDIT: Again, for the record, I do not like the idea of covid passports, but what is the alternative? Just let anti-vaxxers keep spreading the virus to everyone in large public areas?
Sorry but it IS my business and right to know if you are vaxxed or not if I am going to spend any time indoors with you. Although I and my adult children, as well as older grandchildren, are vaxxed the younger ones are not. The chances of me unknowingly picking it up and passing it on to one of them is significantly increased if I associated with someone unvaccinated for any significant period of time. I certainly will not knowingly sit at a poker table with someone who is not vaccinated. These are just facts not my opinion.

As for people knowing my my medical history, bullshit, all it shows is one vaccine completion, nothing more. What the heck are we afraid of. We have had to show our kids vaccinations for so many other diseases pre school, what's the difference?
Bfillmaff;c-420448 wrote
torontotablecpt;c-420446 wroteI don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.
Nailed it. I'm absolutely shocked at how comfortable many people are with creating a "SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING PAPERS" approach to participating in society. It's short term thinking at best.
If I may add. I hate the whole, “I’m vaxxed, double poke” movement. Reminds me of that social media program for American voters. “I voted” GOOD FOR YOU. Something to post to draw attention to themselves.
Also I suspect that both of you, bfillmaf and torontotablecpt, are vaccinated but just object to having to "prove" it as you are both educated guys who aren't easily brainwashed. What I really don't understand is why the concern with only showing this specific part of your medical history. Are you concerned about a slippery slope, which I certainly understand as I have a bit of that concern as well.
I really hope I’m wrong and I’ll be happy to take the ridicule months and years down the line, but because cdc ok’d it I’m still not running out to get it.

Clever people might say, “if you’re around”. Fair enough. But I’ll take my chances with a 98%+ survival rate.

I’m also upset at the whole get double vaxxed with what ever manufacture vaccine. I know some people who can’t travel cause they took the “cocktail”. It’s too soon for this vaccine. It’s too soon for any long term evidence. It might “solve” this covid thing but who know what it causes down the line.

When has anything the government got involved with end well.
torontotablecpt;c-420453 wroteI really hope I’m wrong and I’ll be happy to take the ridicule months and years down the line, but because cdc ok’d it I’m still not running out to get it.

Clever people might say, “if you’re around”. Fair enough. But I’ll take my chances with a 98%+ survival rate.

I’m also upset at the whole get double vaxxed with what ever manufacture vaccine. I know some people who can’t travel cause they took the “cocktail”. It’s too soon for this vaccine. It’s too soon for any long term evidence. It might “solve” this covid thing but who know what it causes down the line.

When has anything the government got involved with end well.
Again though, it's not just about you and your survival. You can spread it to others and kill them also.
compuease;c-420450 wroteSorry but it IS my business and right to know if you are vaxxed or not if I am going to spend any time indoors with you. Although I and my adult children, as well as older grandchildren, are vaxxed the younger ones are not. The chances of me unknowingly picking it up and passing it on to one of them is significantly increased if I associated with someone unvaccinated for any significant period of time. I certainly will not knowingly sit at a poker table with someone who is not vaccinated. These are just facts not my opinion.

What are you worried about? You’re vaxxed?
I know my arguments are rudimentary and old and I’m not a doctor, but isn’t the simplest answer usually correct.
So you’re willing to write of family? What about a family member we who has herpes or hep_-a etc. Gross. how dare you interact with me. What about a family member who can’t take the vaccine for whatever reason?

As for people knowing my my medical history, bullshit, all it shows is one vaccine completion, nothing more. What the heck are we afraid of. We have had to show our kids vaccinations for so many other diseases pre school, what's the difference?
But where does it stop comp. next is booster shots etc. Government, media and pharma are building an us vs you dilemma/situation.

Remember this is not Ebola or small pox or something that would kill you instantly or have a higher transmission rate.wash your hands , don’t touch you’re face, shower, don’t be gross and it will be ok.
It is not just the survival rate but the long term effects of this thing for some people, and not just someone who has preexisting conditions. I have a long term client of mine, late 40's, no known conditions etc. Played lots of sports ran 5k 3 times a week, caught and was diagnosed with Covid I believe last April and is still fighting the effects. Apparently his lung capacity is only about 60% of what it was. Also he was not a smoker. I know this is ancedotal as he is only one person but why take that chance?
With Delta we are certainly starting to see more and more young children affected as well. Who knows the long term effects on them. What will happen with schools opening?
The irony of it all is that the people refusing to get the COVID vaccination are the reason all these rules are being made and they are the only ones complaining about... Look at the mirror!!! You are the reason they exist, but you are the only one complaining about them. Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy to complain about. You made your decision for what ever reason you felt was valid now deal with the consequences of those decision. IMO I don't think their OHIP coverage should be renewed if you didn't get the shots. You want to live in Canada and get all the rights but then put everyone else at risk fill up the hospitals so legit people getting sick cant find beds deal with your decisions. A government shouldn't HAVE to force medication on its people and these people are the exact ones that are causing it to be a forced issues and laws needing to be made. If you refuse to be a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem and lay in the bed you have made for yourself. And Again I will restate, "there is no conversation to be had any more". The science is there, if they choose to ignore it, nothing we say will ever change their minds as we are just repeating what smarter people then us have already concluded so the only option we have left is shaming them.

@torontotablecpt I agree with you that I shouldn't have to share my medical history with others but here we are and the reason.. because others won't protect their neighbors. Our generation never had to go to war, our generations call to arms was to sit on our ass and do nothing and get vaccinated to keep our country safe. My grandpas generation had parts of their bodies blown off, had to kill people, left their families and if they returned never returned the same person families were destroyed, all to keep our country safe and to give these people the right to stand on the ground they are standing on today. They have forced this situation upon us and now we have no other choice but to do it to be safe. I have no respect for someone that choose to be a coward while the rest of us are doing what is right. it sickens me and makes me so frustrated we even have to have this conversation it also scares the crap out of me how many people are not in this together.

Rant over..
compuease;c-420452 wroteAlso I suspect that both of you, bfillmaf and torontotablecpt, are vaccinated but just object to having to "prove" it as you are both educated guys who aren't easily brainwashed. What I really don't understand is why the concern with only showing this specific part of your medical history. Are you concerned about a slippery slope, which I certainly understand as I have a bit of that concern as well.
Haha. Respectfully it’s none of your business. Really. But I like you even though we’ve never met.

I get the whole be human do it for the community thing. But man , everyone is running out to get these vaccines so that they can “return to normal”. Yes it’s a slippery slope Not passing conspiracy theories around, but what is next? Some other variant? Then lock down again.

Legit question for you all. Do masks really work?
I really don’t mind wearing them to be honest. Hide peoples nasty ass breath and teeth. (Me included)

Why is there not accountability either with the manufacturer or the government if anything goes wrong with this vaccine? Doesn’t that scare people?

As of last week they now came out and said it’s safe for pregnant women. What’s next kids? With less than 2 years study.

I have asked my doctor what he thinks off the record. Reply with Less than 2 years Study I would not recommend to patients/general public. For my family not less than 5 years. Pretty interesting.

End of rant.
trigs;c-420449 wrote
Bfillmaff;c-420448 wrote
torontotablecpt;c-420446 wroteI don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.
Nailed it. I'm absolutely shocked at how comfortable many people are with creating a "SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING PAPERS" approach to participating in society. It's short term thinking at best.
I actually agree with you too. It is short term thinking because in the short term, people are dying from the virus right now and pro-vaxxers are trying to do whatever they can to stop that from happening. Also consider the covid variants that are coming about due to the anti-vax community spreading the virus between each other - another issue that is happening in the short term that we need to try and stop.

EDIT: Again, for the record, I do not like the idea of covid passports, but what is the alternative? Just let anti-vaxxers keep spreading the virus to everyone in large public areas?
Here’s one that I’m on the fence about too. I’m really not trying to sound insensitive because to be honest, I have not had an extended family member get covid and thus not extremely sick bed ridden. It’s like poker, so I’m going to assume y’all will get it. Take emotion out of it. The numbers are no more worse than flu deaths in previous years. Interesting how no one dies of the flu nowadays huh? I mean you’re going all in at 99% trying to fade a one outer. Anyone folding?
trigs;c-420454 wrote Again though, it's not just about you and your survival. You can spread it to others and kill them also.
That seems to be based on the assumption that it's the "anti-vaxxers" that are the ones spreading it. I get it that it's a convenient way to explain it, but the reality is that it looks like everyone will eventually be exposed to this thing, and the choice is just whether you want to experience it with or without the benefit of the vaccine.

Even the Vaccine Gestapo people are starting to backpedal... "We never said it will stop transmission, we need to force this so we don't overwhelm the hospitals" ... which takes us full circle as we enter yet another year of "15 days to flatten the curve."

If someone can show, clearly, how it stops the spread, I think some of the more hesitant folks may come around... but the line in the sand is in forcing them, which includes basing elements of society on a system of proof. As TTC says: Period. End of Story.
MrCaspan;c-420457 wroteThe irony of it all is that the people refusing to get the COVID vaccination are the reason all these rules are being made and they are the only ones complaining about... Look at the mirror!!! You are the reason they exist, but you are the only one complaining about them. Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy to complain about. You made your decision for what ever reason you felt was valid now deal with the consequences of those decision. IMO I don't think their OHIP coverage should be renewed if you didn't get the shots. You want to live in Canada and get all the rights but then put everyone else at risk fill up the hospitals so legit people getting sick cant find beds deal with your decisions. A government shouldn't HAVE to force medication on its people and these people are the exact ones that are causing it to be a forced issues and laws needing to be made. If you refuse to be a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem and lay in the bed you have made for yourself. And Again I will restate, "there is no conversation to be had any more". The science is there, if they choose to ignore it, nothing we say will ever change their minds as we are just repeating what smarter people then us have already concluded so the only option we have left is shaming them.

@torontotablecpt I agree with you that I shouldn't have to share my medical history with others but here we are and the reason.. because others won't protect their neighbors. Our generation never had to go to war, our generations call to arms was to sit on our ass and do nothing and get vaccinated to keep our country safe. My grandpas generation had parts of their bodies blown off, had to kill people, left their families and if they returned never returned the same person families were destroyed, all to keep our country safe and to give these people the right to stand on the ground they are standing on today. They have forced this situation upon us and now we have no other choice but to do it to be safe. I have no respect for someone that choose to be a coward while the rest of us are doing what is right. it sickens me and makes me so frustrated we even have to have this conversation it also scares the crap out of me how many people are not in this together.

Rant over..
When the rest of your freedoms are taken away, look in the mirror, you have no one else to blame but you. V for vendetta is a great movie to watch right now.


“How did this happen? Who's to blame? certainly there are those who are more responsible than others. And they will be held accountable. But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you”

Never said it's the anti vaxxers that are the only ones spreading it, anyone vaccinated or not can carry it but the odds are much better, would you rather have a one outer to win or better than 50/50? I know I won't change either of your minds as I am not an authority but I have seen it's effects for real and it is not pretty. Make your own choice, I have made mine...
P.S. I sure hope we get this behind us Andrew, I sure would still like that road trip to your beautiful province before I get too old..

All respect... Jeff.
compuease;c-420462 wroteNever said it's the anti vaxxers that are the only ones spreading it, anyone vaccinated or not can carry it but the odds are much better, would you rather have a one outer to win or better than 50/50? I know I won't change either of your minds as I am not an authority but I have seen it's effects for real and it is not pretty. Make your own choice, I have made mine...
P.S. I sure hope we get this behind us Andrew, I sure would still like that road trip to your beautiful province before I get too old..

All respect... Jeff.
Thanks Jeff. We’re trying to make our own choice, but society won’t let us.