Icm

pkrfce9

It's a beautiful game

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pkrfce9

Wetts1012;365116 wroteThis is a clear situation where rape equity applies. I am 4 betting almost my entire range against a villain who is this deep with a cripple still in.

So my question is what point does it go to? Where you you flat or fold or push here?

tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU

Wetts1012

pkrfce9;365125 wroteSo my question is what point does it go to? Where you you flat or fold or push here?

tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU

I flat the 550k, on analysis.

In game I rip it in.

sn1perb0y

djgolfcan;365115 wroteOops, thought you had 10BBs too. No, I don't ship it with 100 BBs with AKs with a 10B stack still to bust, too much money on the line.

I call the 3-bet and see a flop and re-evaluate.

djgolfcan;365118 wroteAnd after he 5 bet shoves ?

I did the 3-bet and the 5-bet, so call the 4-bet and call flop and call turn fold river.. Assuming i didn't hit on a similar board as the "hand's board" idk if thats a word :P

Wetts1012;365126 wroteI flat the 550k, on analysis.

In game I rip it in.

I'm not doing that with 100bbs again lesson learnt:bs:

Wetts1012

djgolfcan;365115 wroteOops, thought you had 10BBs too. No, I don't ship it with 100 BBs with AKs with a 10B stack still to bust, too much money on the line.

By the way, this is the reason that the theory of rape equity works so well.

[deleted]

We can often look at icm from an intuitive perspective, here you have 2 100bbs stacks and 1 10bbs…you should virtually never ever bust before the shorty. Especially if we have skill edge on the other players, we should be able to manipulate play so we never stack off without 100% equity.

Maybe better players could argue against that, but I just think I would resist big pots at all cost here.

I don’t play this deep often but I’d just flat. If we 3bet/call a 4bet we are still often faced with the issue of hitting a kxx or axx flop and having to get it in (with fold equity) vs getting it in pre (with fold equity) .

If we flat we can see all streets often without having to stack off.

I think if we are going to exploit a stack setup we have room to do it without having to risk our stack by going all in. I might use our bluff hands to raise more and our value hands to check call smaller pots in this setting.

With reads villain is cally and passive I don’t’ mind bigger pots so much.

sn1perb0y

He is actually a solid thinking player, he 4 bet my junks when i 3 bet 2/2 times and i folded when we were 4 handed when i was 2/4 with 2 short stacks and i had a medium stack and he had a huge stack.

But i agree i made a big mistake with that hand

pkrfce9

So in this spot, don't get all in pf even with aa, don't get all in on any other street without the immortal stone cold nuts. Ez game. I guess you can still raise him occasionally but if it's a big game of chicken you can just avoid him for a few more hands until he can't rape you any more and you can sit comfortably once more.

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BlondeFish

OMFG, I had given up on strategy discussions here, so I never clicked on this thread until today when all my WPT satellite games at OPT and Fallsview went kaput after being buried under 20 cm of snow and authorities warning to stay off the QEW. :'(

Wetts1012;365130 wroteBy the way, this is the reason that the theory of rape equity works so well.

I have never heard or read about "rape equity" and it doesn't even show up on Google. Is it something that pkrfce9 does on Saturday nights? ;)

Tapatalk put the above to annoy pkrfce9

pkrfce9;365203 wroteSo in this spot, don't get all in pf even with aa, don't get all in on any other street without the immortal stone cold nuts. Ez game.

Where is the "Dislike" button to counter all the Likes? The Nash equilibrium or unexploitable jamming range includes not just AA but a lot more hands. HiSoLoSo's Nash jamming range is 22.6% of hands and I would easily call with JJ, QQ, KK & AA in the BB. sn1perb0y's Nash jamming range is 6.8% (QQ+ AJs+ A5s AJo+ KJs+ KQo) and if I was the #1 stack, I would call with the same range plus AKs.

yasper;365142 wroteWe can often look at icm from an intuitive perspective, here you have 2 100bbs stacks and 1 10bbs…you should virtually never ever bust before the shorty. Especially if we have skill edge on the other players, we should be able to manipulate play so we never stack off without 100% equity.

I strongly disagree. Poker is a very counter-intuitive game and that is what creates the huge opportunity to profit against others who only play by their intuition or "feel." I will usually stack off with less than 50% equity, never mind 100%.

To try to see this intuitively, let's say that pkrfce9 has AA in the BB and says he will have to fold to HiSoLoSo's all-in. Even though AA has "only" ~85% equity instead of 100% against HiSoLoSo's range, I will have to knock out pkrfce9 with Wetts1012's "rape equity" thingamajig ;) so that I can click the "CALL" button instead of FOLD. Even though the third player is a micro stack, it is +$EV to make the call with JJ+ (unless you're Russ Hamilton and can see everybody's hole cards).

Milo

Been reading an introductory text on Game theory, in which poker comes up. It talks about how pure GTO play does not work in all situations and gives the example of Player A being dealt 88 and having to fold if there is a fourth raise. Is this what you are getting at?

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