Another Win for the Religiots

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Texas Megachurch At Center Of Measles Outbreak : NPR

compuease

Now you know I'm still open on this whole religious thing but that is really scare mongering and agitating. Measles and whether there is an outbreak or not really has nothing to do with religion. Any group who makes the conscious decision to not vaccinate is a potential outbreak. Just see the link below for the facts.

Measles Outbreaks 2013 - Recent Outbreaks and Exposures

DrTyore

Firstly...

This is the most terrifying thing I've read all day:

"So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts,"

Coupling it with the irony dripping from...

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," (says the guy telling you that you need to do God's will and be at church every Sunday to donate money, that he runs).

Secondly,

How fucking incredibly dumb is it that there are people in society that seriously weigh the opinions of the highly trained, expert medical field with years of factual (and therefore truthful, despite what the quote above says) evidence on par with a girl that got famous for such intellectual contributions as her boobs, and "The Bad Girl's Guide to Doing it Now"?

Admittedly a little overdramatic, but someone on her IMDB page called her a profiteering witch who kills children.... made me laugh.

Mark

trigs

compuease;360935 wroteNow you know I'm still open on this whole religious thing but that is really scare mongering and agitating. Measles and whether there is an outbreak or not really has nothing to do with religion. Any group who makes the conscious decision to not vaccinate is a potential outbreak. Just see the link below for the facts.

Measles Outbreaks 2013 - Recent Outbreaks and Exposures

no offense comp, but did you read the article? just look at dr. taken quotes above if need be. definitely seems like there is some religious zealotry to blame in this specific case at least.

Milo

Okay, so these people are idiots with respect to vaccinations, and they happen to be religious. Can someone point me in the direction where anyone from the Church is saying that their Faith is what informs them to not vaccinate? There is the one quote from a Church member about God being a Healer, but I am talking about doctrine . . . The Pastor's words about Autism are troubling, but again, I am curious as to where these folks get the idea that God hates vaccines . . .

kwsteve

I think they get it from the internet and all the people who think that vaccines cause autism and a host of other ailments. They are on par with the nutters who think fluoridation is a government plot to turn people into mindless, sedated zombies.

Milo

Yeah that is sort of my point . . . the anti-vaccination meme is not so much a "religious" thing as it is a "stupid" thing. The fact that these folks also happen to be religious is just a bonus for folks like Mark and GTA.

kwsteve

I think it's pointless to argue whether religion is good or bad. Of course it's both.

Milo

kwsteve;360976 wroteI think it's pointless to argue whether religion is good or bad. Of course it's both.

I don't know that I agree with that. :D

JohnnieH

Milo;360974 wroteThe fact that these folks also happen to be religious is just a bonus for folks like Mark and GTA.

No no no.....there are many, many people who claim that God will heal their illnesses through prayer is the only form of treatment worth trying. Therefore: religious over stupidity IMO

kwsteve

Milo;360977 wroteI don't know that I agree with that. :D

Why do you think I said it?

Religion is a tool, like a gun or the internet. It can be used for good or bad depending on the nature of the person using it.

DrTyore

I'm not aware of any religious argument against vaccinations...

But you know, training them to baa properly and what not comes in handy.

Mark

kwsteve

JohnnieH;360981 wroteNo no no.....there are many, many people who claim that God will heal their illnesses through prayer is the only form of treatment worth trying. Therefore: religious over stupidity IMO

It's not that many Christians that believe this. You're talking about a small Christian sect called Christian Science that teach that spiritual healing can overcome disease. Even Jehovah's Witness do use doctors.

This particular group would run to the doctor if they had appendicitis or something like that. They only think that vaccines are dangerous.

GTA Poker

kwsteve;360984 wroteWhy do you think I said it?

Milo is a tool, like a gun or the internet. It can be used for good or bad depending on the nature of the person using it.

Hey, hey, hey...that's going a bit too far (pirate guy winking that I don't know how to do)

trigs

kwsteve;360986 wroteIt's not that many Christians that believe this. You're talking about a small Christian sect called Christian Science that teach that spiritual healing can overcome disease. Even Jehovah's Witness do use doctors.

This particular group would run to the doctor if they had appendicitis or something like that. They only think that vaccines are dangerous.

not a small christian sect. pentecostalism is a big group and they believe in that. read about aimee semple mcpherson (i had to in university :( )

trigs

Milo;360965 wroteOkay, so these people are idiots with respect to vaccinations, and they happen to be religious. Can someone point me in the direction where anyone from the Church is saying that their Faith is what informs them to not vaccinate? There is the one quote from a Church member about God being a Healer, but I am talking about doctrine . . . The Pastor's words about Autism are troubling, but again, I am curious as to where these folks get the idea that God hates vaccines . . .

1) google is your friend
2) why is it that the theist group keeps asking the atheist group to do all the research while the theists can just stick to their beliefs/opinions? do some research yourself. you really might learn something and maybe change an opinion
3) i don't think anyone in this thread was suggesting that the bible teaches that vaccinations are wrong. the point is that religious extremists use religion and god to promote their own views, hence making religion a bad thing.

and just to be nice, here's what they say about vaccinations:

Leviticus:19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen [plant] and woolen [animal] come upon thee.

Relevant reasons for God's warning in this regard includes the fact that bovine (cow) fetal serum is commonly used in the manufacturing process of vaccines. So are monkey kidney cells, chicken embryo parts, bacterial or viral genetic materials - RNA and DNA, as well as yeast and human proteins. Using the example of cows, bovine fetal serum is mixed with bacteria or viral particles, and other vaccine ingredients including toxic metals, such as mercury and aluminum, and immune destructive chemicals. Thus, proteins and genetic materials from the cattle, viruses, and bacteria are mixed before these particles are injected into you or your children. Once the vaccine ingredients, including foreign RNA and DNA, and genetically engineered bacteria and/or viruses, or their parts, enter your blood, they may cause genetic mutations of your cells. Then you have sown thy bloodstream 'with mingled seed' that not only taxes your immune system further, but may cause the development of cancer cells as well. These may go on to become full blown cancers, particularly in the presence of a weakened immune system made weak by vaccine 'adjuvents.'

kwsteve

trigs;361006 wrotenot a small christian sect. pentecostalism is a big group and they believe in that. read about aimee semple mcpherson (i had to in university :( )

Was true at one time, but not anymore.

During the initial decades of the movement, Pentecostals thought it was sinful to take medicine or receive care from doctors.[43] Over time, Pentecostals moderated their views concerning medicine and doctor visits; however, a minority of Pentecostal churches continue to rely exclusively on prayer and divine healing.

trigs

kwsteve;361012 wroteWas true at one time, but not anymore.

did not know that. thanks.

Milo

trigs;361007 wrote1) google is your friend
2) why is it that the theist group keeps asking the atheist group to do all the research while the theists can just stick to their beliefs/opinions? do some research yourself. you really might learn something and maybe change an opinion.

Because I had other things to do last night . . . as I do tonight, as well. Sorry for bothering you . . .

3) i don't think anyone in this thread was suggesting that the bible teaches that vaccinations are wrong. the point is that religious extremists use religion and god to promote their own views, hence making religion a bad thing.

Then the fault lies with the crazies, no? To state otherwise is a bit of a leap of logic.

Yup . . . stupid beats Religion, as they are stretching the quote from Leviticus to the breaking point, if not beyond. the Bible says zilch about vaccination because the entire field had not been created yet (intelligently designed? SORRY). Attempting to stretch prohibitions against miscegenation, and guidelines for agriculture into a ban on vaccines is silly.

Did you know that the Muslim and Jewish texts surrounding dietary restrictions (no pork, etc) are virtually perfect guides for survival in desert climates (ie pork spoils very quickly without refrigeration, and is harder to tell when it has turned than, say, chicken).

Milo

Also, with respect to "promoting their own views" . . . everyone does that. That is why we have politics, and political parties, after all. I will accept religion as a bad thing as soon as we can agree that government is, too.