Making the case for atheism...can it be done?

Milo

DrTyore;356658 wrote
As for "giving voice" to a fetus, you also have to consider imposing will on someone that is a fully recognized person. The girl who is pregnant feels it will ruin her life, or that she will ruin its life, or for whatever reason doesn't want a child. How can someone justify putting her freedoms on a lower tier? The argument of pre-pregnancy steps doesn't count - as mentioned, it's not 100%.

Mark

"Ruin her life" hardly . . . but an abortion does end the life growing inside her.

Actions have consequences, except it seems when it comes to pregnancy. And we who object to the entire process are forced to pay for it. No thanks. If I/we are being expected to foot the bill, we should damn well be able to have some say in the process.

DrTyore

Milo;356704 wrote"Ruin her life" hardly . . . but an abortion does end the life growing inside her.

Actions have consequences, except it seems when it comes to pregnancy. And we who object to the entire process are forced to pay for it. No thanks. If I/we are being expected to foot the bill, we should damn well be able to have some say in the process.

Religious and atheist alike foot the bill. Abortion is the cheaper option than a potential lifetime of assistance. Shall we do the math?

Mark

Big Mike

DrTyore;356707 wroteReligious and atheist alike foot the bill. Abortion is the cheaper option than a potential lifetime of assistance. Shall we do the math?

Mark

Of course that anyone is forced to pay for either the abortion or the assistance is immoral.

But we will do the math. Let us assume x < y.

Abortion cost: $x + killing a person who cannot defend themselves.
Assistance cost: $y

All we have to do now to figure out what the monetary value of a human life is. Should be no problem for us - anyone want to start a new thread? :o

800OVER

I'm glad nobody answered my question....cause they can't.

Milo

800OVER;356734 wroteI'm glad nobody answered my question....cause they can't.

Which one? I answered your question re: should abortion be illegal.

Big Mike

800OVER;356734 wroteI'm glad nobody answered my question....cause they can't.

I answered it too. Not satisfactorily?

DrTyore

Big Mike;356721 wroteOf course that anyone is forced to pay for either the abortion or the assistance is immoral.

But we will do the math. Let us assume x < y.

Abortion cost: $x + killing a person who cannot defend themselves.
Assistance cost: $y

All we have to do now to figure out what the monetary value of a human life is. Should be no problem for us - anyone want to start a new thread? :o

Back to definition. Fetus is not a person. So in my eyes....

Abortion cost:

$x (FWIW, in 'Murica in 2001 - quick google search - average cost was $468).

Cost of assistance:

Child Tax Benefit ($100 / m / kid under six in ON).
+ Tax credits
+ Subsidization of daycare
+ Any extraneous assistance a person may draw in their lives
- Any contributions (taxes and such).

Now, PLEASE NOTE that if anyone pulls the "you could abort the next Einstein / Gandhi / Hulk Hogan" card, I will slap you next time I see you.

Let's even say that the last two end up being a push, and don't have much justification for that since I don't care to be up googling all night. Suffice it to say, for the discussion, let's try to eliminate the unknown, but if you're interested, there is an article arguing for the end of government subsidies for children. (The Case Against Having Kids)

Having said all that, the baby bonus alone covers the cost of abortion in less than six months.

Mark

GTA Poker

I agree. We need more people on the planet. We must hasten the extreme weather apocalyptic events that the Christian right will so gloriously believe was the act of god and had nothing to do with them denying the science of Global Warming. Anything to finally try and put an ounce of correctness into their support of ignorance, racism and pedophilia.

Amen.

PS -- tldr for the most part.

Also -- abortion clinics are fine, just not too close to mah Chinese foods.

GTA Poker

I don't see this thread popping up any longer when I click search new posts so I am just going to assume the Jews won.

ReefAquarium

Big Mike;356721 wrote
All we have to do now to figure out what the monetary value of a human life is. Should be no problem for us - anyone want to start a new thread? :o

The value of a human life:

There are about 7 billion humans.

There is a well known easy and popular way of making more.

Adding more humans will have a negative effect on the environment.

The stability of an ecosystem varies with the square root of the biodiversity.

According to the WHO the planet can support at max about 1.5 to 3 billion humans at an average USA standard of living or about 18 billion people at an Indian standard of living.

An even more inconvenient truth than global warming is: There are too many humans.

Milo

Only if you do not factor in things like advancements in crop yields, heartiness of said foodstuffs, and the fact that global warming, while increasing desertification in some areas of the world is actually greening sub-Saharan Africa.

ReefAquarium

Milo;356998 wroteOnly if you do not factor in things like advancements in crop yields, heartiness of said foodstuffs, and the fact that global warming, while increasing desertification in some areas of the world is actually greening sub-Saharan Africa.

Increasing crop yields is a bad thing.

Starvation was the main factor in controlling human populations.

More humans is a bad thing.

There are too many humans.

Good things are things like banning DDT. That kills more humans per year than Hitler did. (45million?)

Milo

Not sure if serious, but I'll play along . . .

Where do you start your "cull"? Is it a case of population control for thee, but not for we? Or are you thinking about a Logan's Run kind of deal?

800OVER

How old do you have to be to go to heaven?

Milo

Not sure I recall an age requirement . . . so I would have to say any age is fine . . . why are you fixated on age?

The Prophet 22

800OVER;357050 wroteHow old do you have to be to go to heaven?

Cliff notes version on the the "Age of Accountability"

God only executes this judgment on those who have the natural capacity to see His glory and understand His will, and refuse to embrace it as their treasure. Infants, I believe, do not yet have that capacity; and therefore, in God's inscrutable or mysterious way, He brings them under the forgiving blood of His Son.

See Romans 1:16-32

Don't have time for a long a long explanation, but this covers it in a nutshell.

Prophet22

DrTyore

Pretty sick way to sneak in a little socially acceptable homophobia IMO

Props for equally hating on the lesbians and gay men though... however, giving over to a debased mind sounds like a good plan for the long weekend... :)

Mark

Milo

Where is the homophobia, Mark. Are you saying it is not possible for a gay man, or lesbian woman to embrace God?

Seems pretty narrow minded, if you ask me.

800OVER

The Prophet 22;357055 wroteCliff notes version on the the "Age of Accountability"

God only executes this judgment on those who have the natural capacity to see His glory and understand His will, and refuse to embrace it as their treasure. Infants, I believe, do not yet have that capacity; and therefore, in God's inscrutable or mysterious way, He brings them under the forgiving blood of His Son.

See Romans 1:16-32

Don't have time for a long a long explanation, but this covers it in a nutshell.

Prophet22

Not looking for any explanation....just an age. 5?15?18? How about someone born in ethiopia who is 18?

800OVER

Milo;357103 wroteWhere is the homophobia, Mark. Are you saying it is not possible for a gay man, or lesbian woman to embrace God?

Seems pretty narrow minded, if you ask me.

it's OK Mark. Only gays who know God deserve death/hell. The ones who don't know God are fine. Unfotunately you and I deserve death..New Testament and all.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

« Previous Page Next Page »